Impact Of The Internet on BDSM

Sunday April 1, 20001
Impact Of The Internet On BDSM

[21:06] <raven^Ron> (BEGIN DISCUSSION FOR LOGGING PURPOSES)
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[21:20] <raven{Ahz}> we all know the rules..tonight's topic is "The Impact Of the Internt On BDSM"...so lets start with this..do you think the internet has an impact or had one, on BDSM?
[21:20] *** raven{Ahz} is now known as raven^Ron
[21:20] * ananda`{R} nods in agreement
[21:21] <jakyra> I think it has
[21:21] <ayli> yes, I think so raven.. it's made information easier to get.. so people are less afraid to explore what they hid a few years ago
[21:21] <bryna> I know it did for me...
[21:21] <jakyra> many people wouldn't even know about it if it wasn't for the internet
[21:21] <jakyra> like me :)
[21:21] <ananda`{R}> the whole internet concept has made info more easily found
[21:22] <AleisterBlacke> but can you be sure that the information is accurate?
[21:22] <ananda`{R}> and for people to explore the whole BDSM thing in themselves in a safer place..i.e. not in public
[21:22] <jakyra> I think it exposes people to a wide range of information so they can evaluate and make their own opinions about what works for them
[21:23] <ayli> you can't be sure any information is acurate AB.. all you can do is collect all you can, and make your own desisions based on more then one sorce
[21:23] <jakyra> you can never be sure of that - even without the internet AB
[21:23] <BloodLord> much of the information is not accurate...i believe many ppl get scared of it when they see alot of things out on the internet about BDSM because it is hard to find webpages that have accurate information
[21:23] * ananda`{R} agrees with jakyra...lots of books in the kink stores may have info we may or may not agree with
[21:23] <ayli> also, what do you consider not accurate AB?
[21:23] <Tatsumi> i agree
[21:24] <jakyra> who defines "accurate"
[21:24] <RedBeard> hell I make it up a s I go
[21:24] * ayli shrugs.. thats kinda what I was trying to ask jakyra
[21:24] <raven^Ron> I tend to think that a person can only define what is accurate to *them*...
[21:24] <Tatsumi> you have to wade thru all the info you find and see what you think it true & what you think is right for you
[21:24] <raven^Ron> I agree Tats..
[21:24] <raven^Ron> and ayli said it as well..I agree with that..
[21:25] <AleisterBlacke> or maybe I should say that there are too many people who think what they post on their page is gospel - the entire "my kink is better than your kink" and "you're not bdsm because you don't do it my way" argument.
[21:25] <raven^Ron> so should people be told to do this? or is it something people should already know?
[21:25] <Tatsumi> that's in books too AB
[21:25] <Tatsumi> neither raven
[21:25] <BloodLord> raven i agree with that. nut also much of the BDSM that are on official porno pages will scare away ppl who are a little bit corius about it because porno pages about BDSM are alittle bit "way" outtaline
[21:26] <Tatsumi> i think the 'net has given people access to lots more info & then its up to the people to take what they can/want from that info
[21:26] <ananda`{R}> I suppose that people can throw up a how to web page faster than they can get a book printed though
[21:26] <ayli> I think most people know that they should look at more then one source of information.. on the other side.. people aren't Going to listen if you tell them to .. learn all they can.. most think they know everything already :)
[21:26] <raven^Ron> I agree with that AB>.so how does one tell the difference?
[21:26] <bryna> I know that for me if it hadn't been for the internet..I might still be wonder what was wrong with me that I felt the way I did...
[21:26] * ayli listens to
[21:27] <raven^Ron> true ananda...about the web page taking less time than publishign a book
[21:27] <Tatsumi> i think i'm the only person in my age group that didnt find BDSM on the 'net
[21:27] <ananda`{R}> really Tats? That's interesting
[21:27] <Tatsumi> yep
[21:27] * raven^Ron passes out cookies and brownies to anyone in channel who wants one
[21:28] <kiten> smiles ...eyes light up
[21:28] <Tatsumi> but even when i was first looking i had to wade thru magazines & books to find what i thought was real & what was for me
[21:28] <raven^Ron> I found it in a Penthouse Letters Magazine..and a couple books I bought...but the internet gave me the expansive terminology that those sources didn't...so I guess I found "mainstream" bdsm on the net...
[21:28] <raven^Ron> and found my own kink in private.<giggle>
[21:28] * ananda`{R} found that the internet was a "safer" place to read up on the topic, i.e. not having to go out in public to the kink stores
[21:28] <Tatsumi> its worse/better on the net cause there is a ton more info
[21:28] <BloodLord> the BDSM has grown much thru the internet but also ppl who are against it has grown in number just because of the internet..sure it is more acceptble now that it is official....but as i said before..the BDSM porno pages are very missleading
[21:29] <raven^Ron> yes..and most of the books I found Tats, were fantasy related like the story of O...not reality based ...so wading through that gets a bit tougher..
[21:29] <ayli> I think it's a growing process for everyone.. to search through books/magazines/information to find out what they will choose for their lives.. not just bdsm related
[21:29] <Tatsumi> and most of the sites out there are just interestyed in your wallet so they're selling you stuff instead of informing
[21:29] <Tatsumi> exactly BL
[21:29] <raven^Ron> I agree BloodLord that the porno pages are misleading about BDSM...the few that I've seen are anyway...
[21:29] <ayli> bot off
[21:29] <blackrose{LnR}> Yes ayli.
[21:29] * jakyra didn't find it througn the internet, I found it through a friend
[21:30] <jakyra> but I gor a lot if information from the internet
[21:30] <raven^Ron> so..if the porno sites are misleading..would you say that the internet has had a negative impact on BDSM as well? and if so, where, how, why etc etc..
[21:30] <Tatsumi> i dont think it's a negative impact
[21:30] <ananda`{R}> I think it is in some ways
[21:30] <Tatsumi> i just think it's bringing BDSM more mainstream
[21:30] <Tatsumi> now, being more mainstream may be seen as negative by some but i dont think it is
[21:31] <BloodLord> raven> i have found tons of webpages (porno) about BDSM and i have looked at them i must say that i feel sorry for ppl who think just because of those pages that He/She is a Dom just because of that and starts hitting it´s partner and think that he/she knows stuff and really think the partners like it
[21:31] <jakyra> I think a lot more people are learning about it, kink and nonkink and I think that's good
[21:31] <ayli> well.. like AB said.. the sites that say.. "this is the only way it is" frighten people.. or tell them that other people DON"T think the way they do.. thus making them feel alienated
[21:32] <raven^Ron> I don't think bringing BDSM into the mainstream (and thus acheiving acceptance) is a bad thing...
[21:32] <ayli> Hey.. Pet.. i didn't see you come in
[21:32] <jakyra> well, one of the first things I learned about the web is that you don't believe everything you read
[21:32] <raven^Ron> I do however think that the internet has brought some negative impact to BDSM..partly with the massive influx of new people that rush into it and get hurt..thus blaming the lifestyle via the internet..rather than the person themselves...
[21:32] <ananda`{R}> good way to think jakyra
[21:32] <raven^Ron> I agree jakyra..it is good to learn
[21:32] <Tatsumi> ayli, i read a few books that basically said if you dont lovingly top your bottom you're a sick perv
[21:32] * ananda`{R} agrees with that raven for srue
[21:33] <BloodLord> i can not say that the internet has a negative part of BDSM is is very positive..many ppl who goes to those missleading pages also starts searching for more information and they stop by some intresting pages that are better..and comes to understanding that it is not "that way" the other pages told them and really likes it
[21:33] <Tatsumi> you get that kind of it's my way or else attitude everywhere
[21:33] <raven^Ron> I agree with that as well ayli...the "one true way" crap is not doing BDSM a "service" at all..
[21:33] <ayli> exactly Tats.. it's not an.. "interent exclusive" thing.. but.. it's bad no matter where it comes from
[21:33] <Tatsumi> yep
[21:34] <raven^Ron> I agree jakyra that is a good way to think..."don't believe everything yiou read"
[21:34] <BloodLord> *agree*
[21:34] <ananda`{R}> interesting thing, here where we live, at the local meetings, the "net" people tend to not fit in sometimes
[21:34] <raven^Ron> Ron" Tats I'm a sick perv...and I like it that way..
[21:34] <Tatsumi> :)
[21:34] <Tatsumi> why is that ananda?
[21:34] <ananda`{R}> I don't know why, jsut something I have noticed
[21:35] <jakyra> I think that there is a lot of that ananda "Internet BDSM isn't"
[21:35] <ananda`{R}> perhaps because they are seeing it real time for the first time?
[21:35] <raven^Ron> true BloodLord...that does happen..but just as frequently the opposite result occurs..instead of looking for more info the person tqakes the bad info and uses it as "evidence" against bdsm as a whole...so I think it goes both ways..
[21:35] <ayli> I don't think.. fitting.. is so importaint?
[21:35] <ananda`{R}> or maybe they had expected something different
[21:35] <raven^Ron> that is interesting ananda...
[21:35] <ananda`{R}> or perhaps when they see what it is real tiem, they realize it isn't them?
[21:35] <raven^Ron> Ron: Probably ananda, they expected something different..like an orgy
[21:35] <Tatsumi> raven if someone is looking for info to back up an opinion they have already formed, they can find it anywhere
[21:35] * ananda`{R} nods
[21:35] * ayli kinda thinks the idea is.. that everyone has their own.. THING.. and they should.. under most cercomstances feel comfortable with that.
[21:35] <BloodLord> that is very true raven i agree with you to 100%
[21:35] <raven^Ron> that's a possiblity ananda..
[21:35] <raven^Ron> true Tats..you said that muhc better than I did..thank you :)
[21:36] <Tatsumi> np:)
[21:36] <ananda`{R}> good point Tats
[21:36] <raven^Ron> Can we all agree that as far as inforamtional content goes..the internet has provided a great resource and been useful/helpful to BDSM as a whole but has also provided some bad info as well?
[21:36] <jakyra> I know that I wouldn't have found my local group without the internet
[21:36] * ayli nods
[21:36] * jakyra nods
[21:36] <Tatsumi> i think it has increased the amount of info available raven
[21:36] <BloodLord> also many internet pages refer to "THIS is the way of BDSM" and ppl think that it must be done that way to be true BDSM and instead they get injured
[21:37] <Tatsumi> not good or bad - just info
[21:37] <raven^Ron> I agree with that Tats...it has tremendously increased the amount of info available..
[21:37] <Tatsumi> i say that b/c what's good info for me wouldn't be for a newbie
[21:37] <jakyra> I don't think gathering information is ever bad.
[21:37] <Tatsumi> so i wouldnt say good/bad info - it's too subjective
[21:38] <ananda`{R}> perhaps I would say there is some unrealistic info...i.e. info that is so far out...i.e. not reality
[21:38] <raven^Ron> So BloodLord that brings as to "one true way"...you find alot of that on the internet..mostly because people do personal pages that are meant to reflect their views only and their relationship...some take this to the extreme of "My way is the only way"...how do you think this affects people who are learning about BDSM? (general you is used here)
[21:38] <BloodLord> if it is only bad and missleading info it is bad gathering it
[21:38] <jakyra> information just is.
[21:38] <Tatsumi> it has also provided people with a psuedo support group
[21:38] <raven^Ron> I think the more info one has..the safer, more open minded, etc they are..but that's me :)
[21:38] <Tatsumi> the net is mostly anonomous - people can get togethr in chat and talk about what they desire without really confronting it
[21:38] * jakyra agreas with raven
[21:38] <raven^Ron> Ron nods agreeing with what everyone is saying...
[21:39] <raven^Ron> ananda..good way to put it..unrealistic
[21:39] <jakyra> but they can also explore it safely, if they chose
[21:39] <jakyra> They can learn a lot more before they get started
[21:39] <Tatsumi> well, yes to a point
[21:39] <raven^Ron> Ron: I think porn sites are bad sites to get information from because they are not trying to relay advice or information, they are just trying to get bucks through sex...
[21:39] <BloodLord> raven^Ron but many of the pages do noe make it clear that this is the way I do BDSM. they say that this is BDSM and not that it is only from their weiw of point..any many commercial pages also has this "one true way"...i have only found very few pages that says: this is my way and not other
[21:39] <raven^Ron> Tats I have your support group point..and we'll get to it next ok?
[21:40] <Tatsumi> and most people only take it as far as they can online - which is great if that's what they're into - and i dont think that was possible before
[21:40] * raven^Ron tries to separate the overlapping threads..
[21:40] <Tatsumi> ok raven:)
[21:40] <Tatsumi> sorry:)
[21:40] <jakyra> hmm, most of the sites I've found say "this is my way" maybe I was just lucky
[21:40] <raven^Ron> no problem Tats...I wasn't correcting you..just letting you know so you woudln't think I was ignoring that excellent part of this topic :) I'm just trying to avoid confusion :)
[21:40] <jakyra> but I stumbled on cuffs and castlerelm early
[21:40] <Tatsumi> np:)
[21:41] <raven^Ron> Ron gets confused real easy ..(He said it, not me)
[21:41] <BloodLord> jakyra you must have been lucky :)
[21:41] <Tatsumi> i think most people understand that getting info from a pay site isn't the right way to go
[21:41] <BloodLord> or it is just me that have found all the bad sites
[21:41] <raven^Ron> BloodLord..I have to agree that many sites do not make it clear that their view is theirs only and may not be for others...
[21:41] <Tatsumi> i'd hope so anyway
[21:41] * jakyra nods to Tats
[21:41] <raven^Ron> raven: I agree Tats
[21:42] <BloodLord> raven^Ron yes..but that is the negative part..there are also many positive parts
[21:42] <raven^Ron> Ron: I agree Tats..
[21:42] <raven^Ron> ok..lets pick up one positive part then..Tats said:
[21:42] <BloodLord> i agree Tats
[21:42] <raven^Ron> [21:38] <Tatsumi> it has also provided people with a psuedo support group
[21:42] <raven^Ron> how has the internet done this?
[21:42] * Tatsumi smiles at all the agreeing peoples:)
[21:42] <raven^Ron> Ron: mIRC!
[21:42] <Tatsumi> lol
[21:42] <jakyra> email lists
[21:42] <BloodLord> ;)
[21:42] <ananda`{R}> I met some of the greatest people this way
[21:42] <Tatsumi> the net is mostly anonomous - people can get togethr in chat and talk about what they desire without really confronting it
[21:43] <Tatsumi> and most people only take it as far as they can online - which is great if that's what they're into - and i dont think that was possible before
[21:43] <ananda`{R}> exc. point Tats
[21:43] <Tatsumi> ty:)
[21:43] <ananda`{R}> it is a safe haven for folks who are not comfy with meeting for munches, PEP, etc
[21:43] <Tatsumi> <-- i've been on this panel before:)
[21:43] <raven^Ron> good point Tats..the internet provides anonymity..taht can allow people to open up and reveal things to others (and themselves) that maybe they couldn't before...
[21:43] <Tatsumi> yes ananda
[21:43] <jakyra> I think it's especially good for people who live in areas where BDSM is not organized or common
[21:44] <raven^Ron> doing so is a good thing I think...however, do you think it can backfire?
[21:44] <Tatsumi> true jakyra
[21:44] <ananda`{R}> good point as well jakyra
[21:44] <raven^Ron> Ron: LOL "I've been on this panel before" Good one Tats!
[21:44] <raven^Ron> I agree jakyra
[21:44] <Tatsumi> hehehehe
[21:44] <ananda`{R}> yes, it can, I have met some real loosers on here,,,,,people that are frightening actually, you gotta be careful
[21:44] <BloodLord> that i have seen..ppl on the internet say that they love BDSM and stuff like that..but when i have meet some of that people (this is not all people) they don't have a clue about what it is.....mIRC is a good way for people to learn about BDSM because there are more good channels here than bad sites on the http web
[21:44] <jakyra> I know there are groups that do not promote SSC, that's kind of scary to me
[21:45] <raven^Ron> ok..so how does one know who to trust? IRC lends itself to almost instant trust of others and a great deal of self revelations to others without the caution that exists in r/l encounters..
[21:45] <ananda`{R}> good point gf
[21:45] <Tatsumi> i dont trust anyone
[21:45] <jakyra> take your time.
[21:45] <raven^Ron> Ron: Well SSC isn't the only way of doing BDSM jakyra and minimizing risk..there is also RACK and all of that..then again there is always good old common sense..
[21:45] <Tatsumi> i recommend that people dont trust online friends til way into the relationship
[21:45] <raven^Ron> raven: I don't subscribe to SSC jakyra...
[21:45] <ananda`{R}> time goes flying so much faster on line than in real life
[21:46] * Tatsumi isnt into SSC
[21:46] * Tatsumi shrugs
[21:46] <raven^Ron> I agree with the trust comment Tats...one neds to take their time
[21:46] <BloodLord> none knows who to trust over the internet..a person can never trust another one just by talking over the internet..that is a problem
[21:46] <Tatsumi> i'm talking about big trust though
[21:46] * ananda`{R} is into SSC, but that is for another discussion yea?
[21:46] <BloodLord> just take your time..and do not rush into it
[21:46] <raven^Ron> Ron: Trust comes way to easy when one opens up their heart and thinks the other perosn is doing the same. So is this really trust or is it "fake" "suspected" trust? (fantasy)
[21:46] <Tatsumi> little stuff is cool with chatters, but stuff like your name & address & so on shouldn't be given out lightly
[21:47] <raven^Ron> yes..a different discussion ananda :)
[21:47] <Tatsumi> say again Ron?
[21:47] <raven^Ron> but it does impact on this one because SSC had it's birth on the internet as far as I know...
[21:47] * ananda`{R} doesn't agree....I learned SSC from PEP
[21:47] <BloodLord> Ron> i believe as long as they have never met there cannot be a complete trust..a person need to see reaction of the other person and how that person expresses themselves and that cannot be accomplishes over the net
[21:47] <ananda`{R}> way before I had a computer
[21:47] <Tatsumi> i think the term was coined in a magazine raven
[21:47] <raven^Ron> Ron: ok..ummmmm..the anonymity of cyber allows people to open up faster, thus trusting someone else quicker...would that be real trust, a deep level of trust, or just a fantasy world of trust that they've created?
[21:48] <Tatsumi> <-- not sure but i can look it up if you want
[21:48] <raven^Ron> ahhhh..thanks ananda and Tats..I did not know that..
[21:48] * BloodLord refers Ron to what He just said above
[21:48] <jakyra> I think the trust is real, but it may be seriously misguided
[21:48] * raven^Ron makes note..SSC existed before internet
[21:48] <Tatsumi> yes jakyra
[21:48] <jakyra> you can trust someone and be realy really wront
[21:48] <jakyra> wrong
[21:48] <ananda`{R}> I dunno the answer to that one raven.....trust is easier when you are not looking at someone, you can say lots of things you would never say face to face
[21:48] <Tatsumi> Ron, i think the trusting soul is really placing their faith in another but they shouldn't be doing it
[21:49] * ananda`{R} has met people in r/l after meeting them on line and they hve two diff. personalities
[21:49] <raven^Ron> Ron: True BloodLord...you're not gonna know how a person is reacting (expressions and all) until you meet them face to face..but you can feel like this is your greatest friend, perfect partner in the whole world..all from talking on a chat room..
[21:49] <raven^Ron> true jakyra...you can trust someone and be all wrong...
[21:49] * raven^Ron puts SSC thread on hold for next question...so we can finish the trust and such things..
[21:49] * jakyra agrees with raven
[21:49] <Tatsumi> it happens with the phone too
[21:49] <ananda`{R}> deffo, Tats
[21:49] <BloodLord> Ron> yes that is true..many people often trust another one just by talking pver the internet and that is dangerous..
[21:49] <Tatsumi> it's very easy to imagine anything you want when all you have to go on is a voice
[21:49] <jakyra> the phone is a little bettter because you can hear inflection
[21:49] <ayli> I don't know.. I've been wrong.. very few times.. meeting people from online..
[21:49] <Tatsumi> it's even easier when all you have is typed words
[21:50] <jakyra> some people have great radars ayli
[21:50] <raven^Ron> this is true ananda..you can say more to someone you haven't met..but is that a maesure of actually trusting the person you are talking to..or the anonymity that cyber provides?
[21:50] <jakyra> some people are very gullable
[21:50] <raven^Ron> true Tats (both me and Ron: re: phone and voice based trust)
[21:50] <ananda`{R}> perhaps it is the veil that the monitor provides, a screen that protects you from them?
[21:50] <BloodLord> i would say the anonymity that cyber provides
[21:50] <raven^Ron> but with phone you get tone....what jakyra said :)
[21:50] <jakyra> I think it's a combination of trust and anonymity
[21:50] <Tatsumi> if you're uncomfy sayting something to a person's face then you're not happy saying it out loud
[21:51] <jakyra> heh
[21:51] <Tatsumi> which means it's easier on the net cause it's not really real
[21:51] <BloodLord> yes over the phone you can atleast hear how the person reacts
[21:51] <ananda`{R}> however, Roamer and I met on line and ahve been happily married for nearly two years, so it can work for the good
[21:51] <Tatsumi> it's just a computer after all:)
[21:51] * BloodLord ´s computer is a dating helper :)
[21:51] <Tatsumi> of course it can ananda! Kimi & Soul are celebrsating their anniversary as we type and they met thru AOL:)
[21:52] <raven^Ron> Ron: I'm not sure anonymity is a good word..you open up, thus revealing yourself to someone else, and you are no longer anonymous...but there is that distance between you and the perosn you are talking to..you dohn't see their face and they don't see yours...I guess anonymity fits..but I don't think it's real accurate..
[21:52] <ananda`{R}> anonymity, I mean as in no face or real name attached...i.e. my nick is not my real name
[21:52] <raven^Ron> I think it can work to bring a relationship from cyber to r/l and have it last...but that is very dependent upon the people involved..
[21:52] <BloodLord> Ron: but what if that person is not opening up..just putting out the side that the person likes it to be and not the true person?
[21:53] <Tatsumi> then it wouldnt ever work BL
[21:53] <raven^Ron> nicks..that brings up a whole nother point..people become what their nicknames are perceived to be..and often that is not the same as who/what they truly are...
[21:53] <Tatsumi> right raven
[21:53] * jakyra chuckles indeed raven
[21:53] <raven^Ron> Ron: Then they are misleading that other "trusting" soul...and that other is going to get hurt..emotionally at least BloodLord
[21:53] * ananda`{R} nods....
[21:53] <Tatsumi> a lot of people get online to escape what their real lives are like
[21:53] <ananda`{R}> for sure Tats!
[21:54] * jakyra nods!
[21:54] <BloodLord> Tats> yes i know but many ppl "fake" themselves...just acting to be the one they want to be or to be someone that the other person wants you to be to get closer and get contact
[21:54] <raven^Ron> personally, the nickname thing, it drives me nuts sometimes.. I actually have someone who calls me "Her Raven-NESS"...<sigh> Like I'm royalty or something...so I guess along with anonymity people gain noteriety in cyber...
[21:54] <raven^Ron> Ron: But I am AAHHZZ~! LOLOL
[21:54] <raven^Ron> cute Ron.. LOLOL
[21:54] <jakyra> There are creaps no matter where you are
[21:54] <raven^Ron> Yes Tats...I have to agree with cyber as an escape..I did it, and it is because I did it that I survived...
[21:54] <Tatsumi> well, i know a few people who get online and put themselves into a role - they pretend to be their online persona so that they can work to becoming more like that persona in real life
[21:54] <BloodLord> jakyra yes there are
[21:54] <jakyra> there are a lot of really wonderful people on the internet too
[21:54] <Tatsumi> it's a tool, but if you're courting someone with that tool, you're lying
[21:55] <jakyra> yes Tats
[21:55] <BloodLord> yes it is a tool..and to bad many miss uses it
[21:55] <Tatsumi> but too many jerks misuse the same technique in bars too
[21:55] <Tatsumi> it's not all that unique to the net
[21:55] <jakyra> power is very easy to misuse, it takes a strong soul to not abuse it
[21:55] <BloodLord> Tatsumi true
[21:55] <Tatsumi> just more pronounced cause there are more people here
[21:56] <Tatsumi> the internet has given us more of everything
[21:56] <Tatsumi> more good stuff and more bad
[21:56] <jakyra> it is like a magnifier of the world
[21:56] <Tatsumi> the impact of on BDSM as i see it? the net has made BDSM more accessable
[21:56] <Tatsumi> :)
[21:57] * jakyra votes with Tats
[21:57] * BloodLord agrees with tats
[21:57] <BloodLord> Tats even
[21:57] <jakyra> and I think it's a good thing too
[21:57] * ananda`{R} nods
[21:57] <raven^Ron> I agree Tats that the misuse of cyber is no different than the misuse of r/l dating...it happens..just the environment changed..
[21:57] <raven^Ron> I agree with that Tats
[21:57] <BloodLord> yes i can agree that the internet is a magnifier of the whole world.
[21:57] <Tatsumi> exactly raevn:)
[21:57] * ananda`{R} doesn't think she agrees wih that totally gf
[21:57] <raven^Ron> Ron: *looks at Tats* at least I've never come up and asked "What you wearin Baby?" or "What's your sign?" LOL
[21:58] * ayli giggles
[21:58] <raven^Ron> why not ananda?
[21:58] <ananda`{R}> the internet is a venue that makes it so much easier to misuse/abuse
[21:58] <Tatsumi> lol, you can see what i'm wearing on my cam and you'd know my sign if you read my FAQ:PPP
[21:58] <raven^Ron> oh we got a disagreement!! WOo Hoo!! bout time.. LOL
[21:58] <ananda`{R}> = P
[21:58] <raven^Ron> Ron: ROFL Tats..Brat!!!
[21:58] <raven^Ron> raven: LOLOL good come back Tats!
[21:58] <Tatsumi> hehehehe
[21:58] <raven^Ron> Ron checks the cam...Damn she's wearing clohtes
[21:59] * BloodLord does not even know the adress to the cam :(
[21:59] <ananda`{R}> can we check the cam for free, though, Tats? hee hehe, I could not resist!
[21:59] <ayli> www.girl2.com
[21:59] <Tatsumi> yep:)
[21:59] <raven^Ron> ok..ananda...how is the internet easier to misuse/abuse?
[21:59] * raven^Ron wants to discus this disagreement before tossing in SSC...
[22:00] <ananda`{R}> because lots more people have access.....it takes less effort than writing a letter, going to meet someone for a chat...it is a much more convenient way....people can "hide"
[22:00] * ananda`{R} was abused in teh beginnign big time by it
[22:00] <ananda`{R}> are we having a net split here?
[22:00] <jakyra> I agree that it's easier to misuse/abuse, but that is a price for more access
[22:00] <raven^Ron> raven nods...true ananda..I hadn't thought of that...yes it takes alot less effort to get online than to go to a bar..
[22:00] <Tatsumi> i can see how people would let thweir guard down easier on the net, but i dont think thats universal
[22:01] <raven^Ron> not that I know of (net split ??)
[22:01] <Tatsumi> people new to the net do that, but most qise up quick
[22:01] <raven^Ron> Ron: nodding agreement with what ananda said...
[22:01] <venicia> hide what ? the way they look or lack of experience or ???
[22:01] <ananda`{R}> hide their name, their location
[22:01] <raven^Ron> their intentions, etc venicia..
[22:01] <ananda`{R}> their real self
[22:01] <Tatsumi> qise = wise
[22:01] <ananda`{R}> their true intentions
[22:01] <Tatsumi> <--- missed something
[22:01] * ananda`{R} has a very very good friend
[22:01] <raven^Ron> RoN: hide the fact that they're 500 pounds wiht warts, very bad breath and a desire to kill or maim people..
[22:01] <jakyra> I think hiding name and location is a good thing
[22:01] <ananda`{R}> who several of us all knew
[22:01] <ananda`{R}> a
[22:01] <raven^Ron> Ron: think..barel people..
[22:01] <ananda`{R}> Dom she talked to online for a good 6 months
[22:02] <ananda`{R}> he had us all convinced he was a good guy
[22:02] <ananda`{R}> some had met him in real life
[22:02] <ananda`{R}> long story short, he raped her
[22:02] <ananda`{R}> so my point is that he hid out so very well here
[22:02] <raven^Ron> I hide my name (full name) and location (exact location) until I know somoene for at least 6 months or longer and feel I can trust them..it's too dangerous to give that info out real quick...
[22:02] <ananda`{R}> doubt he would have fooled us in real life
[22:02] <ananda`{R}> that's my point I wanted to make
[22:02] <ecllipse> dont doubt it ananda
[22:02] <raven^Ron> Ron: I don't think so..if he was that good at hiding it..he could have hidden it in r/l too..
[22:02] <ecllipse> ted bundy fooled plenty of peopl
[22:02] <raven^Ron> Ron: people dohn't go around with a sign tyhat says "rapist": on their chest
[22:02] <Tatsumi> i wouldnt doubt it - i've met some total swarmy liars in my time
[22:03] <ananda`{R}> no way, Ron, he could not have been out and about in real life as much as he was on line
[22:03] <ananda`{R}> he had a wife and kids
[22:03] <ecllipse> they know how to hide even better
[22:03] <raven^Ron> raven: I agree that the internet makes it easier to hide such things...you get the chance to "edit" your comments...but rapists are good at hiding it in r/l as well...
[22:03] <Tatsumi> even still... people lie in RL too
[22:03] <ananda`{R}> I agree ecllipse
[22:03] <ecllipse> sociopaths make a living at hiding who they are
[22:03] * ayli listens to
[22:03] <Tatsumi> yes ecllipse
[22:03] <jakyra> I have it set up that when I meet someone, a friend comes to the same place to observe discreatly
[22:03] <raven^Ron> Ron: I admit it is easier to hide ..talking through a computer than face to face
[22:03] <ecllipse> at least online you stand a chance
[22:04] <ecllipse> most serial killers have neighbors that always thought they were nice wuiet guys
[22:04] <raven^Ron> true ecllipse..and someone who is a rapist that has a wife and kids is pretty good at hiding it..or the wife would know and not be the wife anymore...
[22:04] <raven^Ron> anyway....
[22:05] <raven^Ron> SSC and the internet..any thoughts?
[22:05] <ecllipse> i have heard of it happening
[22:05] <ayli> some people are liars.. they are goiung to be liars with or without the net
[22:05] <Tatsumi> i think people scream SSC to make WIIWD more palitable to the straights
[22:05] <raven^Ron> yes it has happened ecllipse...and I agree ayli...
[22:05] <ecllipse> you have to be sure of yourself and not be a victim
[22:05] <ananda`{R}> wth is WIIWD?
[22:05] <raven^Ron> what it is that we do
[22:05] <Tatsumi> what it is we do
[22:05] <raven^Ron> or what it is we do
[22:06] <ecllipse> you have to have everything set up when you meet
[22:06] <jakyra> I think SSC is also for the newbies
[22:06] <jakyra> it makes them feel safer
[22:06] <ananda`{R}> SSC is for me and Roamer and we are far from newbies jakyra
[22:06] <raven^Ron> A little earlier tonight I learned that SSC had appeared before the internet exploded..so did the internet spread SSC faster, or did SSC spread on it's own?
[22:06] <ecllipse> not only the newbies jakyra
[22:06] <Tatsumi> well, i think you can adhere to SSC and not be new
[22:07] <raven^Ron> raven: I agree jakyra that it is great for newbies..but I've found that as time has gone on, I don't conform to SSC as it is now being pushed..
[22:07] <Tatsumi> but the people who scream about SSC tend to be defending BDSM
[22:07] <ecllipse> just because you are experienced dosent mean you should let your gaurd down
[22:07] <ananda`{R}> huh, Tats?
[22:07] <jakyra> how is it being pushed now raven?
[22:08] <Tatsumi> those people who talk about SSC and bitch about how others aren't following it are usually trying to defend BDSM to straights or to themselves
[22:08] <jakyra> IMO safe and sane are pretty subjective. Although i'm sure a lot of people don't see it that way
[22:08] <Tatsumi> trying to say it really isn't a sick thing if you do it this way - the SSC way
[22:08] <ananda`{R}> exactly right jakyra
[22:08] * jakyra chuckels
[22:08] <ecllipse> if you are single, it is important
[22:08] <Tatsumi> i think it's becoming a meaningless term
[22:09] <raven^Ron> I have seen a change in how SSC is defined over time...at first I was taught "safe" meant "as safe as possible"..now people say safe is "no chance of physical harm"..which makes no sense...
[22:09] <ananda`{R}> not to me it isn't
[22:09] <ayli> you can't.. always be.. Safe.. by everyones definiton
[22:09] <raven^Ron> it also has been used as a means of separating other people out of "BDSM" because they don't conform to the speakers ideas of what is safe or sane..
[22:09] <ayli> sane.. follows suit
[22:09] <Tatsumi> i say meaningless b/c everyone seems to define it differently
[22:09] <jakyra> well, if they want no chance of physical harm then they should live in a bubble not be doing BDSM
[22:09] <Tatsumi> ie - what ayli just said
[22:09] <raven^Ron> that';s the change I've seen in SSC...and personally, I find it to be more detrimental to BDSM as a whole, than good for it..
[22:09] <ananda`{R}> well,e veryone defines BDSM differntly for themselves, doesn't make it meaningless
[22:09] <raven^Ron> exactly jakyra
[22:10] <ayli> lines on their buttss with lipstick while their dom hits the chair behind them?
[22:10] <ayli> (sorry.. that was sarcasm)
[22:10] <Tatsumi> lol
[22:10] * jakyra agrees ananda
[22:10] <ecllipse> what fun is that ayli?
[22:10] <ecllipse> :)
[22:10] <raven^Ron> no it doesn't ananda..and SSC is not meaningless...I did not mean to imply it was...just that for me, I don't fit it and I never did..When I tried to conform to it, I was not happy...SSC is useful, but it is not the only way to do BDSM...(I hoipe that came out right this time) :)
[22:10] <ananda`{R}> maybe ayli was giving an example of SSC?
[22:10] <ayli> some people do it ecllipse.. and.. they aren't harmed.. but..
[22:10] <Tatsumi> i think it's a useless term - if i have no idea what someone says when they say it then it might as well be German
[22:10] <jakyra> lots of things in our lifestyle are individually defined. That doesn't make it meaningless
[22:11] <ayli> for me.. it would be Useless..
[22:11] <raven^Ron> no..ayli was making a joke..
[22:11] <raven^Ron> raven explains lipstick comment..
[22:11] * Tatsumi said it was a meaningless term &I stick to it - useless term for me
[22:11] <ananda`{R}> why don't we break down teh three words ehre?
[22:11] <raven^Ron> a couple I talekd with a few times..considered the lipstick drawings of lines on the butt while the top hits a chair is the only way to do real bdsm...and were totally aghast that I actually got hit...to them, I was being abused..
[22:11] <raven^Ron> so..the lipstick thing became sort of a joke...
[22:12] <ananda`{R}> safe.....how I define that is that both people are DOING what they AGREE is safe for them
[22:12] <ecllipse> dosent sound sane to me...lol
[22:12] <Tatsumi> some people are only into bondage - no hitting at all
[22:12] * Tatsumi shrugs
[22:12] <ecllipse> true
[22:12] <ananda`{R}> *perk* tie me up gf......don't get me all 'cited now
[22:12] <ayli> exactly ecllipse.. it doesn't sound sane to you.. it didn't sound sane to them that someone would actually get.. Hit
[22:12] <raven^Ron> You, ananda, are more openminded and borad wiht the definitions of the three terms in SSC...not everyone is though which is why I think SSC is beginning to get a bad rep..
[22:13] <ayli> so.. the whole sanity thing goes out the window.. (in that particular example)
[22:13] <ecllipse> but why go through the motions then
[22:13] <ananda`{R}> ok, then ...but to me, SSC and RACK are the same
[22:13] <jakyra> what is RACK?
[22:13] <ananda`{R}> you just gave them different letters is all, gf
[22:13] <Tatsumi> ananda, i do things pretty regularly that i dont think are safe. does that mean that i'm not s BDSMer or that i'm not allowed to play with you all?
[22:13] <raven^Ron> I agree with that definition ananda of safe and would only add that both are aware of the risks and accept the possibility...plus the person doing the tying/hitting/whatever knows how to do it as safely as possible (such as don't tie real tight knots over nerve endings in the wrist or ankle type safety)
[22:13] <ecllipse> i think safe refers to knowing who you are playing with and trusting them
[22:13] <ananda`{R}> if you wanted to play with me and do something that I did not considere safe for me, then it would not be SSC for us to do it, tats
[22:14] <ananda`{R}> exactly raven
[22:14] <raven^Ron> to you, yes ananda...to others, no..it comes down to the definition of safe and sane..which are extremely subjective..
[22:14] <raven^Ron> RACK: Risk aware consensual kink
[22:14] <Tatsumi> then there's the whole topic of non-consentual constentuality
[22:14] <jakyra> I think that that is a more accurate and meaningful phrase
[22:14] <Tatsumi> ack, ignore the spelling errors please
[22:14] <raven^Ron> SSC: safe sane consensual..is used as a way of describing how everyone in BDSM goes about doing their bdsm activities..........and it excludes edge players..to help get acceptance for BDSM in society...edge playres are not "safe" thus not BDSM..
[22:14] <jakyra> but there is still consent then Tat
[22:15] * jakyra likes RACK
[22:15] <ananda`{R}> that's news to me raven.....at meetings here in Atl...the edge players are nto excluded
[22:15] <jakyra> much less subjective
[22:15] <Tatsumi> yep:)
[22:15] <raven^Ron> RACK however, states clearly (no subjectivity, least not as much) that people who engage in bdsm related activities are aware of the risks and involved and consented anyway...there is less lee-way of the definition...so I prefer RACK..
[22:15] <raven^Ron> yes...I understand that gf..but the group here would exclude me if they knew I liked it when Ron cut me with a straight razor..
[22:15] <ananda`{R}> that is exactly how we define SSC here where I live
[22:15] <jakyra> here too ananda
[22:16] <jakyra> and we have people that have shot fireworks off their sub
[22:16] <raven^Ron> it is not how everyone pushes or views SSC..but it is how SSC is being pushed/viewed in some areas..but lets stick to internet related areas..on the internet (mailng lists for example) is where you find the "insult" of "You're not SSC!" tossed out the most..
[22:16] <ananda`{R}> when I learned SSC at a PEP meeting that is how they defined safe basically, that both know the risks involved and consent to it
[22:17] <ananda`{R}> I reckon, gf, that it goes back to subjectivity
[22:17] <raven^Ron> yes..like I said that is how I originaly learned it as well ananda...does that definition also include that a sub must have a safeword in order to be safe?
[22:17] <raven^Ron> yes..it does gf.. :)
[22:17] <raven^Ron> and..hair splitting.. LOL
[22:17] <raven^Ron> semantics
[22:17] <ananda`{R}> well, safewords on the internet are damn silly
[22:18] <jakyra> no they don't raven
[22:18] <raven^Ron> LOLOL true ananda..
[22:18] <ananda`{R}> you can't stop someone from typing that theya re going to choke you to death!
[22:18] <jakyra> indeed ananda
[22:18] <jakyra> rofl
[22:18] <raven^Ron> LOLOL ananda..
[22:18] <ayli> if your tied up you can't stop someone from choaking you to death in rl
[22:18] <jakyra> but you can use /ignore
[22:18] <Tatsumi> hehehe
[22:18] <ananda`{R}> yep, that's the only safeword on line isn't it jakyra! good one
[22:18] <raven^Ron> that or disconnect..
[22:18] <jakyra> ty
[22:18] <ecllipse> you shouldnt be playing with someone you have to wirry about choking you to death
[22:18] <Tatsumi> turn off the puter - thats a great one:)
[22:19] <Tatsumi> lol ecllipse, you havent met Ken have you?
[22:19] <Tatsumi> or Flagg:)
[22:19] <ecllipse> lol
[22:19] <ananda`{R}> some people are into it!
[22:19] * ayli laughs
[22:19] <Tatsumi> hehehe
[22:19] <ecllipse> if i thought there was a chance of death i wouldnt do it
[22:19] <raven^Ron> however, when one discusses what they enjoy in their r/l, online...they will get insulted for it..example, simi and Ror..wonderful people..who happen to enjoy punching/kicking play...
[22:19] <ayli> I was just meaning.. you don't Always know that someone is going to stop when you safeword..
[22:19] <raven^Ron> everytime they bring it up (or one of them does) they get told they are unsafe, not SSC, not BDSM and simi is being abused...
[22:19] <ananda`{R}> theyd o?
[22:19] <Tatsumi> i think SSC is one more way for people to exclude others
[22:19] <raven^Ron> see what I mena by SSC is being used against people?
[22:19] <ananda`{R}> well, shame on them then! (jk)
[22:19] <Tatsumi> it's another "my way or else" group
[22:20] <jakyra> that would be the YKINOK group
[22:20] <raven^Ron> yes ananda..they do..happened in here just 3 days ago as a matter of fact..that person of course left LnR because well..I said I don't subscribe to SSC being used that way..
[22:20] <ecllipse> i have total confidence that my dom would stop ayli
[22:20] <raven^Ron> yes jakyra :)
[22:20] * ananda`{R} takes exception to that Tats....I guess I am sheltered, I never met people who were SSC who had that attitude
[22:20] <ecllipse> i have never had to safeword with him
[22:20] <jakyra> me too ananda
[22:20] <Tatsumi> lucky you!!
[22:20] <ecllipse> otherwise i wouldnt do it
[22:20] <jakyra> I guess I've been lucky
[22:21] -ananda`{R}:@#leather_and_roses- -=§ 6 ops / #leather_and_roses §=- I can't keep up with the mail I got now gf!
[22:21] <Tatsumi> the reason i'm not on any mailing lists is the infighting
[22:21] <raven^Ron> I think it is mostly an internet thing...used to make the speaker feel/think they are "better" than someone else..
[22:21] <ananda`{R}> good point gf
[22:21] <jakyra> I know couples where to Dom insists on safewords because he regularly pushes limits
[22:21] <Tatsumi> i quit all of them b/c i was too tired of being felt like an outsider
[22:21] <Tatsumi> no it's not just a net thing raven
[22:21] <Tatsumi> it happens at TES and PEP too
[22:22] <ecllipse> but does the sub avctually have to use the safeword
[22:22] <jakyra> yep
[22:22] <ayli> I don't really see how pushing someone's limits requires a safeword.. but okay
[22:22] <raven^Ron> I have no safeword, not even for my back anymore...I don't want one..and I have total confidence that were I to say to Ron "My back!!" he will stop what he is doing, take stock of the situation, and decide how to procede..(either shift position and continue play, or stop play)
[22:22] <raven^Ron> Ron: Or rush you to the hospital raven..LOL
[22:22] <Tatsumi> well, saying "my back" would be a safeword of sorts to some people raven
[22:22] <raven^Ron> raven thinks for a few...
[22:22] <ananda`{R}> I was about to say that Tats
[22:22] <raven^Ron> true Tats..it could be.. LOL
[22:22] <Tatsumi> most people have safewords that convey info, not just mean stop or die
[22:23] <raven^Ron> yes...but I call that communication more than a safeword...
[22:23] <jakyra> a safeword is a way to convey info, quickly
[22:23] * ananda`{R} looks at the clock and knows Roamer is gonna beat her ass if she doesn't get to bed......sorry all
[22:23] <jakyra> night ananda
[22:23] * ananda`{R} smiles and says goodnight
[22:23] <Tatsumi> night night ananda:))
[22:23] <raven^Ron> I have found that I prefer communication rather than having to remember some codeword for stop..that i never can remember during a scene anyway.. LOL
[22:23] <raven^Ron> night gf!! HUGS
[22:23] * jakyra chuckles
[22:23] * ananda`{R} waves
[22:23] <ecllipse> nite ananda
[22:23] <ayli> I understand Why people have a safeword.. I just.. think that they become kinda useless in the middle of an intense scene
[22:23] <jakyra> I go nonverbal in subspace so safewords per say are pretty useless for me
[22:24] <Tatsumi> raven, i used a safeword when i was first starting for public scenes so other people wouldnt think that i was a wus or that my dom was a bastard
[22:24] <raven^Ron> raven shrugs a bit and smiles...for me, I can't remember the words..and I get non-verbal if I go far enough in sub space anyway..so a safeword is a mute point for me..
[22:24] <Tatsumi> the word was "mercy" and it meant come whisper to me
[22:24] <raven^Ron> yes..I can understand that Tats..and would probably do the same..
[22:24] <jakyra> lol Tats
[22:24] <ayli> I've had days where I couldn't remember my Name.. muchless if the word was cucumber or bananas
[22:24] <raven^Ron> makes sense to me Tats..
[22:24] <Tatsumi> now i just scream Ken's name if i need his attention
[22:25] <raven^Ron> LOLOL Tats..that works
[22:25] <jakyra> Red/yellow/Green while uncreative are easy to remember
[22:25] <Tatsumi> he is so not used to hearing my voice say his name it's pretty instantaneous reaction
[22:25] <Tatsumi> he's right there next to me
[22:25] * jakyra chuckles
[22:25] <Tatsumi> :)
[22:25] <raven^Ron> true jakyra..they are easy to remember when someone is in full control of themselves..but for me, not all, and many others you can't remember your name in scene..forget red yellow green...
[22:25] <jakyra> very true
[22:26] <raven^Ron> I guess it's a matter of knowing oneself well enough to know whether or not a safeword works for you (general yous)
[22:26] <jakyra> I'm the same way, so I really understand
[22:26] <Tatsumi> most people who use safewords reguklarly are causla sceners - clubbers - who hardly ever get that deep into subspace during a scene with a new partner
[22:26] <jakyra> hmm interesting
[22:26] <Tatsumi> <-- typos are out in full force tonight
[22:26] <raven^Ron> however...bring this back on topic of internet...safewords get pushed to the max online, least from what I've seen...I've heard "If you don't have, or aren't allowed, a safeword, you are not in a BDSM relationship, you are being abused"...and similar comments..
[22:26] <jakyra> i'm either there or i'm not
[22:27] <Tatsumi> it happens a lot on the west coast
[22:27] * jakyra nods to raven
[22:27] <raven^Ron> why do you think such statements are made regarding ssc (safewords and all that included in use of SSC in this question) online?
[22:27] <Tatsumi> raven, thats yet 1 more form of exclusion
[22:27] <raven^Ron> I think so too Tats..
[22:27] <Tatsumi> b/c people are trying to make BDSM more paletable to the normals
[22:27] <ayli> because everyone's got this need to "protect the newbies"..
[22:27] <raven^Ron> more palatable how?
[22:27] <jakyra> Because it should be a red flag for newbies if they aren't allowed one
[22:27] <raven^Ron> protect the newbies how/why?
[22:28] <jakyra> is that such a bad thing ayli
[22:28] <raven^Ron> why jakyra?
[22:28] <ecllipse> i think a lot of people you are refering to dont go out of their houses
[22:28] <Tatsumi> if you've got a safe word and everything you do is "safe" then it's not really scary, mean, abusive, sick, twisted, etc...
[22:28] <raven^Ron> why can't they just be told about using their common sense instead and to communicate in a scene as well as out of it?
[22:28] <ayli> yes jakyra.. because if people feel talked down to they stop Listening/looking for information
[22:28] <raven^Ron> Ron: good point Tats
[22:28] <Tatsumi> ty
[22:29] <raven^Ron> Ron: If you don't have a safeword then obviously you are being abused because you can't stop it..you are not in control...
[22:29] <raven^Ron> raven: and umm..then where is the submission if the sub has control?
[22:29] <Tatsumi> lol, a whole nother topic
[22:29] <raven^Ron> Ron: woops..a sub in control? BloodLord are you in PC mode again today?
[22:29] * ayli laughs
[22:29] <raven^Ron> the internet pushes the idea that the sub must have total control (final say) over everything that occurs in the relationship or it isn't true submission..
[22:29] <raven^Ron> my question to that is..then why submit?
[22:30] <Tatsumi> thats not just the net
[22:30] <raven^Ron> raven"s fingers hurt... LOL
[22:30] <raven^Ron> it isn't Tats?
[22:30] <Tatsumi> not at all!
[22:30] <raven^Ron> raven sits happily in the "I"m an abused sub" corner and likes it there..
[22:30] <raven^Ron> LOLOL
[22:30] <jakyra> lol
[22:30] <ayli> jakyra, you can't.. protect people, all you can do is offer the information that you yourself have, and hope that you've given something of use.. adults/and I think most humans, Have to learn from experience
[22:30] <Tatsumi> the majority of the kinky world thinks that the sub is merely in it for the physical and that without a safeword or some such the sub can't stop things when they out of hand
[22:30] <jakyra> this is true ayli
[22:31] <ayli> uhmm
[22:31] <ayli> raven
[22:31] <raven^Ron> ayli, from what I've seen, most people wont' listen to the advice given them anyway...
[22:31] <raven^Ron> yes ayli?
[22:31] <ayli> we don't have any corners
[22:31] <Tatsumi> and it's the sub's job to stop things since the sub is getting pleasure out of the experience
[22:31] <raven^Ron> true gf..sorry LOL
[22:31] <ayli> no.. most of the time they won't raven.. thats why all you can do is give what you have and hope
[22:31] <raven^Ron> ummmmmm..I don't always get pleasure from Ron...gee am I not a sub then (according to this internet view)
[22:31] <Tatsumi> this isn't an internet POV
[22:32] <ayli> yes Mistress raven *duck*
[22:32] <Tatsumi> this is magority of kinksters pov
[22:32] <raven^Ron> exactly ayli...and from that popint of view..giving the info that a safeword is a good idea...might at least provide a newbie with a small measure of safety...not much, but some..
[22:32] <raven^Ron> LOLOL ayli
[22:32] <Tatsumi> i heard it at TES, English Palace, PEP and several clubs
[22:32] <ayli> but it's false safty
[22:32] <raven^Ron> I realize that Tats..but I'm sticking to internet because that's the topic tonight :)
[22:32] <ayli> safety
[22:32] <Tatsumi> course, i was 21 and cute so they were saying anything they could think of to get in my pants
[22:33] <jakyra> rofl
[22:33] <Tatsumi> it's better on the net - at least i think it is
[22:33] <raven^Ron> not totally ayli...if a person (bottom/sub/slave/cucmber/carrot/wyhatever) informs a dom they are meeting that they have a safe call and demand a safeword for play...many times a person who is only out to harm the sub will back off from meeting them...
[22:33] <ayli> "I have a safeword.. so I can go out and get tied up and beat by everyone.. and they're gonna respect my safeword."
[22:33] <Tatsumi> yep ayli
[22:33] <raven^Ron> the use of a safeword may not (and probably won't) save someone's life once they are tied up in front of somoene intent upon killing/hurting/maiming them...but it can prevent them from getting tied up in the first place...
[22:33] <Tatsumi> if someone demanded stuff out of me, i wouldnt met them
[22:34] <jakyra> but is it the safecall or the safeword that makes the other person back off
[22:34] <Tatsumi> i dont do demands from people i dont know - i dont care if they're looking out for themselves or not
[22:34] <raven^Ron> that is very much a false security ayli (the quote you put up)
[22:34] <raven^Ron> Ron: Oh Tats, you're not 21 anymore but they're still trying to get into your pants! LOL
[22:34] <ayli> I can agree with you that it might work if people comunicate beforehand.. but ..
[22:34] <Tatsumi> maybe raven, but if someone doesn't intend to respect a safeword they're not likely to tell you
[22:35] <Tatsumi> heheh Ron, not as mnay, but a few:)
[22:35] <raven^Ron> I don't know jakyra..maybe not the word/call that backs them off so much as the knowledge that the sub in question is very much focused on self protection and personal safety...??
[22:35] <raven^Ron> true Tats..very true
[22:37] <raven{Az}> Well Tatsumi......shall we continue or wrap this up since everyone seems to be heading to bed?.....
[22:37] <raven{Az}> *Ron here*
[22:37] <AleisterBlacke> not me, I'll be up for the next 3 hours.
[22:38] * BloodLord is up
[22:38] <raven{Az}> Well AB....Do you think I abuse raven since she doesnt have a safeword?
[22:38] <BloodLord> and will be for the next 20 hours or so
[22:38] <AleisterBlacke> nah, she'll tinkle in your coffee if you do.
[22:38] <Tatsumi> i'm here
[22:38] <ayli> yes.. your abusive Ron.. evil... mean to us both
[22:38] * ayli cries
[22:38] <raven{Az}> LOLOLOLOLOLOL
[22:38] <BloodLord> lol
[22:38] <raven{Az}> I'll tinkle in his coffee????
[22:38] <raven{Az}> Ron: Brat! (ayli)
[22:38] <ayli> OH no.. did he see that..
[22:38] * ayli laughs
[22:38] <raven{Az}> Ron: AB, thanks for giving her an idea!
[22:39] * raven{Az} rofl
[22:39] <BloodLord> haha
[22:39] <raven{Az}> (END DISCUSSION FOR LOGGINGPURPOSES)