Orgasm Control

March 25, 20001
Orgasm Control Discusion

[21:06] <raven{Az}> (DISCUSSION START FOR LOGGINGPURPOSES)
[21:06] <raven{Az}> logging purposes even
[21:06] * raven{Az} says Hello and welcome to #Leather_and_Roses' weekly discussions on BDSM topics. I hope you enjoy it. The following rules apply for all present.
[21:06] <raven{Az}> You must be of legal age to participate, if you are not, please leave. Legal age being 18 or 21 depending on your location, if you are thought to be younger, you will be asked your age. If you are found to be younger, you will be kick/banned.
[21:07] <raven{Az}> No trolling will be tolerated, this is not a singles night, it is a discussion night Trolling is the advertising of yourself, wants/needs/desires, and/or personal ads. If you troll, you will be kick/banned.
[21:07] <raven{Az}> Harassment will not be tolerated either. If you harass another person, and an op is made aware of it, you will be asked to stop. If you continue, you will be kick/banned. This discussion is for enjoyment and information, not harassment.
[21:07] <raven{Az}> Please try to stay on topic and discuss one thread at a time. If the discussion gets overly fast (or overly emotional, or someone requests a break), I will call a break. This is so everyone can take a few moments to relax, and get their thoughts in order before continuing.
[21:07] <raven{Az}> If it erodes into a semantics argument, and those who are disagreeing can not agree to disagree, I will close the discussion for the night. We are here to discuss and learn from one anther, not fight with one another.
[21:07] *** Dartag (Unknown@=QMnwxccfxf.dialport22.midamerica.net) has joined #leather_and_roses
[21:07] *** kinu{D`A} (restricted@=AQkwzg0h124.snip.net) has joined #leather_and_roses
[21:07] <raven{Az}> Please be polite when speaking and do not flame anyone. Flaming is insulting the person who states an idea. You can disagree with an idea, but do not attack the person making the idea. Flamers, will be kicked
[21:07] <raven{Az}> All statements are publishable on the web site,. I will change nicks if it is requested via email to ravenshad@earthlink.net If I receive no requests, logs will be published in full on the web site and the lack of a request will be taken as consent to publish your statements.
[21:07] <ayli> Hello Dartag..
[21:08] <ayli> hello kinu
[21:08] * Dartag smiles at kinu, and motions for her to come to him
[21:08] <raven{Az}> I hope you enjoy tonight's discussion, the topic is Orgasm Control
[21:08] <Dartag> Hello everyone
[21:08] <raven{Az}> ayli is the co-host for the evening, thank you for the help ayli! :)
[21:08] * ayli smiles
[21:08] <raven{Az}> lets start with this..what is orgasm control?
[21:08] <Dartag> That is why we came!
[21:08] * kinu{D`A} smiles and pads over to her Master, kneeling quietly
[21:08] <kinu{D`A}> may i greet Master?
[21:08] <Dartag> yes kinu
[21:08] <kinu{D`A}> thank You Master
[21:10] *** MistressJulina (user@64.92.78.Lp14=) has joined #leather_and_roses
[21:10] <MistressJulina> hi all
[21:10] <raven{Az}> Hello Dartag, kinu{D`A}, and MistressJulina
[21:10] <raven{Az}> does anyone have a thought on what orgasm control is?
[21:10] <pandy> greetngs MistressJulina Ma'am
[21:10] <bellakitty> orgasm control is the control over orgasm - whether to withold them, force them etc.
[21:10] <MistressJulina> hi pandy
[21:10] <pandy> orgasm control means being able to stop it
[21:11] <ayli> Hello MistressJulina
[21:11] <ayli> bot off
[21:11] <blackrose{LnR}> Yes ayli.
[21:11] <`fae> Or being able to have someone orgasm at command
[21:11] <MistressJulina> hi ayli
[21:11] <ayli> Okay.. so basically, having control of your own, or someone elses orgasms
[21:11] <ayli> ?
[21:12] <pandy> yes
[21:12] <Dartag> interesting thoughts, but tell me how does one stop an orgasm once the point of no return has been passed?
[21:12] *** jakyra (dragon@=clj343-24-580-242.dialup.umn.edu) has joined #leather_and_roses
[21:12] <ayli> Hello jakyra
[21:12] <BloodLord> then i must ask this question....what is an orgasm..i have been told and read that orgasm in this case is not when he erects his seed..that does not have to be an orgasm..so then i wonder Orgasm Control..is that to stop just the erection moment or?
[21:12] <jakyra> hi ayli
[21:12] <Merry> sometimes I think people mean different things by "orgasm"
[21:12] <ayli> we'll get to that in a moment Dartag, we're trying to get a basic idea of the topic first
[21:13] <ayli> (raven had to run after a kid)
[21:13] <bellakitty> Dartag...by direct order to stop.
[21:13] <pandy> one's emotional make up comes into the forefront here
[21:14] <ayli> how so pandy?
[21:14] <pandy> if one is an emotional person it is harder to stop
[21:14] <bellakitty> an orgasm - the physical, trackable peak of the body...usually involving swelling, increased respiration and a 'peak' in muscular contractions that may or may not result in ejaculation in men or women
[21:14] <ayli> o.. k
[21:14] <ayli> thank you bella :)
[21:14] <bellakitty> i disagree pandy....
[21:14] <BloodLord> thank you bellakitty
[21:14] <pandy> yes good bellakitty
[21:14] <ayli> whats your opinion bella?
[21:15] <bellakitty> i am very emotional....and very orgasmic...but if my owner tells me STOP - i do...
[21:15] <pandy> why do u disagree?
[21:15] <bellakitty> i might try to punch him...*grins*...but i do.
[21:15] <bellakitty> it is not harder or easier..it just happens.
[21:15] <BloodLord> to stop? stop having orgasm?
[21:15] * kinu``{D`A} rubs her bottom
[21:15] <jakyra> what do you mean "very orgasmic"?
[21:15] * ayli thinks, it would be a matter of discipline, rather then any emotional.. reactivness
[21:16] <pandy> then bella, do you think it is more in controlling the emotions?
[21:16] <bellakitty> my body likes orgasm...will have them easily...repeatedly...
[21:16] * jakyra nods
[21:16] <bellakitty> no. it is in controlling the body
[21:16] <raven{Az}> I have been able to stop an orgasm, even when I have reached a high state of arousal by exerting mental will not to cum...it means that I do not allow my conscious mind to lose control of my body and I do not relax enough to cum...
[21:16] <pandy> nods to raven
[21:16] <BloodLord> hmm then i wonder if a man can stop an orgasm
[21:16] <SirGrunge> why would one want to deny such pleasure?
[21:17] <SirGrunge> BloodLord: i have been able to do so..
[21:17] <bellakitty> i have been trained - i don't have to 'do' anything...my body just 'stops' if ordered to.
[21:17] <BloodLord> i know from my expierence and my self that when i have reached a state i cannot stop it
[21:17] <gin> the question to me is.....is the orgasm the act of cumming or ejaculating? or is it the physical and mental edge ?
[21:17] <raven{Az}> orgasm, the release of sexual pleasure..with women it includes flexing/releasing of vaginal muslces...
[21:17] <raven{Az}> good definition bella ..I agree
[21:17] <Merry> is it a reflex?
[21:17] <bellakitty> yes BL....it can be stopped up until the point called 'ejaculatory inevitability'
[21:17] <ayli> a trained reflex perhaps?
[21:17] <Merry> seems to me, it's like sneezing
[21:18] <raven{Az}> I think it's both gin...least it is for me..
[21:18] <bellakitty> then, the semen etc is on its way, it is a physiological inevitability.
[21:18] <raven{Az}> could be Merry..a reflex that occurs in response to sexual stimulation..
[21:18] <Dartag> if you define the orgasm as the ejaculation itself, I doubt whether any amount of training could stop in once it has begun
[21:18] * Merry nods
[21:18] <bellakitty> for men, you must not allow the 'ei' stage to be hit...
[21:19] <bellakitty> lots of 'peaks' might be obtained without that tho....
[21:19] <Merry> that's the part I don't understand
[21:19] <BloodLord> then i believe it is esier for a woman to stop an orgasm
[21:19] <Merry> is a peak different from an orgasm?
[21:19] <pandy> yes
[21:19] <bellakitty> and those peaks feel just like orgasms....and they CAN be stopped.
[21:19] <raven{Az}> to me, yes Merry...I can peak many times, without going over the edge into orgasm...
[21:19] <bellakitty> peaks are a part of orgams
[21:19] <raven{Az}> kind of like sub space..go up, come down, go up again, come down again...waves??
[21:20] <bellakitty> there are many different types of orgasms also....
[21:20] <raven{Az}> what are the types that you know of bella?
[21:20] <bellakitty> lol
[21:20] <Merry> hmm, I think I only have one kind
[21:20] <BloodLord> me to :)
[21:20] <gin> i experience those waves as well, but how do you know which peak is the one you cannot stop....how do you know which one is the one that will send you into orgasmic oblivion?
[21:20] <raven{Az}> I know of clitoral, anal, and g-spot orgasms..
[21:20] <bellakitty> there are vaginal and clitoral...both different...there are extended...multiple...ejaculatory...
[21:21] <bellakitty> yup..anal...
[21:21] <bellakitty> mental...
[21:21] <raven{Az}> sometimes gin, you don't know until afterwards..if you can't stop it, it takes over and you won't know until you're done..
[21:21] <raven{Az}> gee..I forgot a bunch bella! LOLOL
[21:21] <bellakitty> and all of those can be singular...multiple...extended...lol
[21:21] <raven{Az}> yes..
[21:21] <raven{Az}> I agree bella..
[21:21] <raven{Az}> so..what is a vaginal orgasm?
[21:22] <gin> then how can you control it raven{Az}? if your Master commanded you to stop and you went over the edge what would happen to you? i mean, can or does he punish you?
[21:22] <raven{Az}> probably punishment gin..the point is to prevent your body from reaching the point of no return...
[21:22] <gin> alright, and how do you do that?
[21:22] <Rorschach> Yup .. definitely pick on Rorschach night
[21:22] <bellakitty> lol Ror
[21:23] <bellakitty> gin...you just don't let yourself....
[21:23] <ayli> maybe not for punishment.. but perhaps because forcing you to forgo orgasm for awhile can make it more intense when it is allowed?
[21:23] * kinu``{D`A} waves bye to her twin
[21:23] <ayli> hello SilversPet
[21:23] <Rorschach> Heya SilversPet
[21:23] * SilversPet wavies to everyone. Hey, all. How goes?
[21:23] * ayli gives Ror another hug.. and whispers.. where is our simi.. give her back you meany
[21:23] <bellakitty> good job ayli!!!!
[21:23] * ayli giggles
[21:23] <ayli> hiya simi :))
[21:24] <simi-kidlets> ayliest!!!!
[21:24] <SilversPet> Heya, simi!
[21:24] <Rorschach> Told ya I was being nice here tonight
[21:24] * Amax nods to the newcomers...
[21:24] <simi-kidlets> Hi SilversPet :) Nice to see you again
[21:24] * SilversPet smiles.
[21:24] * Rorschach hugs ayli back despite the mean comment
[21:24] <ayli> yes.. but.. I wanted my simi back
[21:24] <Rorschach> Heya Amax
[21:24] <ayli> and.. you have her
[21:24] <bellakitty> orgasm control is not just about denial tho...it is also about forcing them.
[21:24] <ayli> and your always.. well.. mostly.. always nice Ror
[21:25] <SirGrunge> i say it again, why deny such a pleasure?
[21:25] <ayli> it's just fun to torment you
[21:25] <BloodLord> can a person the force him/herself to have an orgasm?
[21:25] <Rorschach> Ah .. thanks ... I think
[21:25] <ayli> because it's Fun SirGrunge?
[21:25] <SilversPet> Not always.
[21:25] <Rorschach> Heya jakyra
[21:25] <SilversPet> There have been a few times when I couldn't force it.
[21:25] <jakyra> hi Ror
[21:25] <pandy> not me
[21:25] <simi-kidlets> jakyra :)
[21:25] <bellakitty> SG - denial can be for fun....for a buildup to be used later....for establisment of triggers
[21:25] <Rorschach> Well, if one controls another, should they not have the option to control their pleasures as well as their pain?
[21:25] <bellakitty> all kinds of things...
[21:25] <jakyra> simi :)
[21:26] <BloodLord> i know you can can ruch an orgasm but just not do it..just say that now i want an orgasm and you have one
[21:26] <SilversPet> Once, Silver tried to trigger it when I was in the middle of coding something, and I just couldn't bring up the mindset, the other I was in a lot of pain.
[21:26] <Dartag> Has anyone tryed tantra to learn control?
[21:26] <bellakitty> yes Dartag...we use tantra...
[21:26] <raven{Az}> I think they should yes Ror...
[21:26] <bellakitty> and BL....if i am told to orgasm..i do...even if i deny it and try to stop it...and believe me, i have!
[21:27] * kinu{D`A} leans against her Masters thigh, listening
[21:27] <bellakitty> contrel can also be in what triggers the orgasm...
[21:27] <BloodLord> oki i have never succedes in getting an orgasm on will
[21:28] <pandy> me either BloodLord Sir
[21:28] <bellakitty> i have had triggers set for verbal....countdowns...odd parts of the anatomy...
[21:28] <bellakitty> even time of day....
[21:28] <bellakitty> all of those are a type of control
[21:28] <Merry> have to go to bed; goodnight all
[21:28] <jakyra> I know people that can ogasm on command
[21:29] <raven{Az}> how does one learn to orgasm on command?
[21:29] <SilversPet> I only have one trigger, and that's a command phrase. But it's "keyed" to Silver's voice.
[21:29] <Rorschach> I'm not one of them, jakyra. It is interesting, however
[21:29] <bellakitty> raven..it is trained in
[21:29] <raven{Az}> how bella? repetition?
[21:29] <bellakitty> Draco spent months setting the first couple of triggers....
[21:29] * raven{Az} listens..
[21:29] <bellakitty> repitition...patience....suggestion...
[21:30] <Rorschach> Is the training compariable to the Pavlovian method?
[21:30] <SilversPet> It's a matter of training. Silver began the process of setting the triggers in me the first time we ever had sex. And then it was reinforced as time went on.
[21:30] <bellakitty> he oculd have done it quickly using hypnosis, but he did not want it to fade as quickly...and enjoyed the challenge
[21:30] <SilversPet> It's not entirely dissimilar, Ror.
[21:30] <bellakitty> yes, pavlovian Ror
[21:30] <bellakitty> <---- Pavlov's daughter
[21:30] <bellakitty> lol
[21:31] * Amax grsin
[21:31] <Rorschach> That's what I had thought. I hadn't really looked into it too much
[21:31] <bellakitty> i have been told that i am very 'suggestible'....
[21:31] <bellakitty> by others as well.
[21:31] <Rorschach> I can trigger certain emotions with a few words or actions, but I've never go as far as orgasm command
[21:31] <SilversPet> I think that it takes a certain kind of person to be trained to it though, too.
[21:31] <bellakitty> but....orgasm control can be in many directions.
[21:31] <simi-kidlets> <cough>
[21:32] <ayli> Why would having control of someones orgasms be a bad thing?
[21:32] <ayli> (raven afk for a second)
[21:32] <bellakitty> cuz he makes me do it at horrible times!!!!!!!!!!!
[21:32] <bellakitty> lol
[21:32] <pandy> poor kitty
[21:32] * SilversPet nodsnodsnods to bellakitty.
[21:32] <SilversPet> They're evil that way, aren't they? ;)
[21:32] <bellakitty> cuz he can force me to not stop.....to keep orgasming....past where i think i still can
[21:33] <bellakitty> cuz he sent me a wav of the trigger phrase...and waited to send the 'cancel' phrase for a full minute or two...
[21:33] <ayli> ouch
[21:34] <bellakitty> and of late, he has adjusted it so that all i need is the 'intent' behind his words, not just a specific set of words.
[21:34] <ayli> so he can do this from a distance bella? What other advantages might this kind of training have?
[21:34] <bellakitty> great amusement value.....horrible amounts of amusement value
[21:35] * raven{Az} giggles..yeah I can see the amusement..
[21:36] * raven{Az} returns and scrolls back
[21:36] * SilversPet laughs... Beyond amusement, I know my Lord enjoys it. He is very much a sensualist, and so enjoys me writhing for him. Granted, that whole LDR thing makes it even that much more worthwhile to him.
[21:36] <ayli> can anyone else thing of any advantages?
[21:36] <bellakitty> ayli - it gives him control - he can give me an orgasm if he wishes...when he wishes...
[21:36] <ayli> or disadavantages
[21:36] <Dartag> I would be more interested in the pyschology behind this, the actual implantation of the triggers
[21:37] <bellakitty> he does not have to spend any more or less time then he wishes.
[21:37] <raven{Az}> What is the dominant's desire/reason behind acheiving such control over the orgasms of their sub/slave?
[21:37] <raven{Az}> (In your opinion of course)
[21:37] <SirGrunge> ayli: disadvantage, denial of the pleasure...
[21:37] <bellakitty> cuz it amused him
[21:37] <ayli> kid in lap
[21:37] <raven{Az}> makes sense bella.. (control comment)
[21:37] <SirGrunge> (could be and advantage)
[21:37] <ayli> kyle
[21:37] <Dartag> you all are describing the effects but no the psychological mechanisms
[21:37] <SODOS> May, I respond as well? (Just scrolled back adn read)
[21:37] <raven{Az}> I once heard someone say that to implant the triggers you speak the word as you make the sub/slave orgasm and they will associate the orgasm with the word...
[21:37] <ayli> of course Lar
[21:37] <`fae> one thing i'd worry about is if a person was made so that only their Dominant could trigger an orgasm, what happens if the relationship ends or becmoes poly?
[21:38] * tribal_maiden retreats...seems I came upon this discussion too late.
[21:38] <raven{Az}> A former dom of mine started it, and got it to a point where I couldn't cum unless he said that word..but he eventually dropped it and I reverted to not needing that specific word..
[21:38] <bellakitty> i do not have a 'restriction' in place like that.
[21:38] * kinu{D`A} bites her lip
[21:38] <raven{Az}> for me fae, I had to "retrain" myseklf not to need the word..it took time..
[21:38] <bellakitty> and training like that would fade in time....
[21:38] <jakyra> what happens if someone else says the word bella?
[21:39] <SODOS> From my perspective, to conrol something so PRIMAL, so integral to the person you have charge over, is one of the most intoxicating things. More, when a submissive surrenders that control to me, she is forced to overcom her own urges. An urge that is driven by her body, as well as her mind if I have done my part correctly.
[21:39] <bellakitty> depends alot on tone, intent and Draco's desires.
[21:39] * kinu{D`A} had a Master who trained me to come with a word
[21:39] <kinu{D`A}> i had to flee, but He called me for weeks after using the word
[21:40] <bellakitty> i know of at least one person who could trigger that same response....and others who have had that opportunity in limited time spans
[21:40] <SODOS> To have it trained and tied to a particular word or phrase, TRULY trained, is to control on both a concious and subconcious perspective.
[21:40] <raven{Az}> I can understand that Lar..makes sense to me too..
[21:40] <bellakitty> exactly LAR
[21:40] <kinu{D`A}> it took a while to "deprogram"
[21:40] <Dartag> Excellent point SODOS
[21:41] <BloodLord> so even if you walk on the streets and the Dom says that word you will have an orgasm?
[21:41] <bellakitty> yes
[21:41] <SilversPet> Yep.
[21:41] <bellakitty> or a look...or a touch...
[21:41] <BloodLord> ohh ok then i understand
[21:41] <bellakitty> and if he says...'more'..i will keep going....
[21:41] <bellakitty> and will not stop orgasming til he lets me
[21:41] <SODOS> I question the intensity of physiological response, and emotional as well, when the phrase is used out of context without preparation. I do believe it happens, I also believe it flah without meat.
[21:41] <SirGrunge> now theres a reason to learn that...yum..
[21:42] <SilversPet> There's an actual command to stop. Until I hear that command, the orgasm doesn't stop... I haven't figured out if it's needing to hear that, or if it's myself extending it for him.
[21:42] <bellakitty> could you be more specific LAR?
[21:42] <SODOS> OK, I have had a sub on a couple of occasions who had great vaginal control, and did train her to cum on a command. Any time, anywhere
[21:42] <SODOS> brb
[21:42] <BloodLord> then will anything happen if another person used that phrase/word? or just the Dom voice..not talking neccecary orgasm but will you come and think of that when another person speaks that word?
[21:43] <gin> similiar to hypnosis, BloodLord?
[21:43] <BloodLord> gin yes
[21:43] * raven{Az} returns..
[21:44] <gin> i would think it would have to be specific to the Dom, to his ability to slither into her mind and control her body through it
[21:44] <SilversPet> *Shakes her head* For me, it won't... In my case, it's keyed to Silver's voice.
[21:44] <SODOS> Sorry. continuing: There is a certain thrill to that control, experimenting and using it. But I did notice, that when I used it with a purpose the response and reaction was much more intense. It could be that I prepared her or teased her. But when used randomly, it happened but the after was not quite the same.
[21:45] <Dartag> sliver gin, interesting choice of words
[21:45] <Dartag> slither even
[21:45] <gin> it wasn't meant in a demeaning way Dartag
[21:45] <BloodLord> yes it is keyed to somones voice..but will you think..for an example..if your Master has trained you to have an orgasm of the word ball..if anyone say ball will you think of your Dom then?...
[21:46] <Dartag> I didn't think it was gin :)
[21:46] <SilversPet> I would think of my Lord, yes.
[21:46] <bellakitty> BL..yes, there was a particular phrase that did that for me...
[21:46] <BloodLord> ok
[21:46] * SilversPet laughs - I also think about him most of the time. ;)
[21:46] <bellakitty> i would hear it, and then do an auto system check ...it was weird
[21:46] <gin> was meant as a compliment ... ability to reach cracks and crevices...like magic as it moves through the mind
[21:46] * gin smiles at Dartag
[21:47] <bellakitty> thank you LAR...yes, Draco's desire for me to orgasm does affect the intenstiy of my orgasms...
[21:47] <bellakitty> and if he DOES do physical prep with it...it is even moreso
[21:47] <raven{Az}> if the sub/slave has not reached a point of complete mental/emotional submission, can they be trained to orgasm on command?
[21:47] * kinu{D`A} smiles at her Master
[21:47] <bellakitty> i think it would depend upon the sub raven...
[21:47] <bellakitty> if they take well to training, then i would think it could be done.
[21:48] <kinu{D`A}> i dont think so..the commitment is not there
[21:48] <Tatsumi> yes raven - it is possible
[21:48] <SilversPet> And some subs can't be trained to it at all... The "wiring" is wrong.
[21:48] * bellakitty wishes Flagg was here...he would be perfect for these questions.
[21:48] <jakyra> I would think so
[21:48] <raven{Az}> Is it accomplished in the same way Tats?
[21:48] <BloodLord> agress with kinu{D`A}
[21:48] <Tatsumi> the sub in question has to be a total hedonist though
[21:48] <raven{Az}> makes sense to me bella :)
[21:48] <gin> i would say yes it is possible, raven{Az}....some submissives are able to be formed and melded easier then others
[21:48] <ayli> raven
[21:48] <Tatsumi> it's more of a ritualistic sex thing than an indivdual control thing
[21:49] <raven{Az}> is an emotional/mental comitment neccessary to teach someone a specific bodily response to stimulus? (In this case, a word)
[21:49] <bellakitty> it also has to do with the desire of the subject...
[21:49] <Tatsumi> yes bella
[21:49] <raven{Az}> boy child needs the mommy..bbiab
[21:49] <kinu{D`A}> if the submission is not total..then the ability or the subs desire to be trained would be questionable
[21:49] <bellakitty> raven... define commitment?
[21:50] <jakyra> I would think that there would need to be some level of commitment
[21:50] <bellakitty> whyso kinu?
[21:50] <Tatsumi> well, with ritualistic control, you don't have to be a sub to be controlled
[21:50] <ayli> raven had to go afk for a few
[21:50] <Tatsumi> you just have to be a whore - or very close to it
[21:50] <ayli> the boy needs the mommy
[21:50] <Tatsumi> (does not mean whore in a bad sense)
[21:50] <jakyra> i disagree kinu
[21:50] <ayli> so.. what is everyones definition of commitment?
[21:50] <BloodLord> i think that just alittle commitment won't do..there have to be a total commitment and submission otherwise the sub will not react that way i believe
[21:51] <kinu{D`A}> if the submission is not complete, there is always the sense of is the sub really willing to be trained
[21:51] <BloodLord> my defenition of commitment is total trust..love and devotion
[21:51] <Tatsumi> if you are all about sex and all about sensation then it is relatively easy to control or meld how and when you get that pleasure because your desire is so strong for it
[21:51] <bellakitty> there is a difference between the commmitment to train...and submission
[21:51] * Tatsumi wonders if she's making sense
[21:51] <kinu{D`A}> i agree with BloodLord, Sir
[21:51] <gin> yes Tatsumi, to me you are
[21:51] <bellakitty> yes Tats
[21:51] * jakyra nods to bella
[21:52] <Tatsumi> thanks:) i dont feel very well this evening
[21:52] <kinu{D`A}> but what are you training for?
[21:52] <bellakitty> sorry Tats....
[21:52] <bellakitty> well, that depends upon the training....
[21:52] <Dartag> I think we could argue about what is complete but it seems obvious to me that there needs to be some level of committment to achieve the level of control we are discussing
[21:52] <BloodLord> yes
[21:52] * raven{Az} returns
[21:52] * gin agrees
[21:53] * SilversPet nods.
[21:53] <jakyra> some subs never give total control, does that make their commitment less?
[21:53] <raven{Az}> I think someone can be trained to orgasm on command whether or not they have a mental/emotional comittment to the one training them...especially if they desire to be able to do this themselves...so I suppose one could say they are comitted to learning orgasm control..
[21:53] <SirGrunge> depends on the relation
[21:53] <Tatsumi> yes Dartag, if nothing else the control needs to be reinforced from time to time and that takes a certain amount of dedication on the dom's part
[21:53] <kinu{D`A}> otherwise we would all be going around orgasming for anyone that said the word
[21:53] <bellakitty> i disagree Dartag....some people are very 'trainable' and as such, they CAN be trained to that level of control...tho, in the case of orgasm, obviously some physical intimacy is required.
[21:53] <raven{Az}> not in my opinion jakyra...
[21:53] <SODOS> Commitment? OR trust and willingness to surrender. Isn't it possible to achieve that in a temporal relationship? IF it lasts long enough?
[21:53] <gin> the level of commitment would be required on both sides though.....in my opinion a sub's abillity to control is contingent upon the amount of input the Dom gives
[21:54] <raven{Az}> I think so Lar..
[21:54] <raven{Az}> I don't know gin, I think a sub needs to have a certain level of self control, with or wihtout input from the dominant...
[21:55] <raven{Az}> I think Trust would be neccessary...
[21:55] <bellakitty> that and susceptabilty....some are susceptable to that type of training and it takes little 'commitment'
[21:55] <gin> very true raven, but to be able to reach the level we are talking about also requires a Dom that pays attention
[21:55] <Dartag> I did not say they were not trainable bellakitty, what I said was that the kind of control we are speaking about would take some level of commitment of the part of both Dom and sub
[21:55] <raven{Az}> I agree with that bella.. susceptability is part of it...
[21:55] <bellakitty> yes Dartag..i am sorry. i agree.
[21:56] * SODOS agrees with bellaisimo. elle would have difficulty, when it came to orgasm. Less so, when it came to a key phrase to put her in a light form of subspace
[21:56] <raven{Az}> I guess that depends on the people involved..the person who trained me, paid very little attention to me most of the time..
[21:56] * BloodLord have to call it a night..it´s 6 am here and i'm gonna try to get some sleep.... raven{Az} can you send me the log tomorrow so i won't miss anything?
[21:56] <raven{Az}> I agree with that Dartag, there would have to be something between the people involved for the training to succeed..
[21:56] <raven{Az}> be well BloodLord and sleep well.. :)
[21:56] <bellakitty> it also requires hitting on the right type of 'trigger/training'
[21:56] <ayli> g'night BloodLord.
[21:56] <BloodLord> you to raven{Az}
[21:56] * Tatsumi agrees
[21:56] <BloodLord> take care A/all
[21:56] <SODOS> Night BL
[21:56] <raven{Az}> actually..with a bit of luck the log will be on the new home for LNR's site BloodLord..if not I will send the log :)
[21:56] <Tatsumi> night B:
[21:56] <Tatsumi> L
[21:57] <raven{Az}> that too bella..
[21:57] <BloodLord> raven{Az} oki..tnx
[21:57] * BloodLord is away, Beating the shit outta insomnia, (log\on pager\on)
[21:57] <raven{Az}> would hypnotic suggestion make such traiing easier do you think?
[21:57] <bellakitty> people respond to different stimuli...some physical...some mental...some tonal
[21:57] <bellakitty> for example - Draco discovered that i was responding to the tone/inflection rather than the actual words themselves.
[21:58] <bellakitty> he can say anything in the correct tone, and my body will respond accordingly
[21:58] * gin responds to whispers.....the husky whisper of a deep voice
[21:58] * gin agrees with bellakitty
[21:58] <raven{Az}> is tone/inflection important then? I mean if the tone/inflection is not what you have been trained to but the words are, would the sub still respond to it? (general you is used here)
[21:58] <bellakitty> raven - it can...and he has used some light trance hypnotic suggestion
[21:58] <bellakitty> it depends on if that is their 'key'
[21:59] <simoriah> My dog did that, if I say "your a bad girl" in the "oh you're such a good girl voice and tone" she'd be wagging her tail and kissing me
[21:59] <raven{Az}> I love that husky whisper voice myself gin.. :)
[21:59] <bellakitty> exactly simi...lol
[21:59] * bellakitty woofs
[21:59] * raven{Az} giggles..good example simi! :)
[21:59] * gin grins at raven{Az}....i'd do almost anything for that voice
[21:59] <ayli> very good example
[21:59] <bellakitty> but, for some, tone is not as important as words.
[21:59] <bellakitty> they resond to the word regardless of tone
[22:00] <gin> it is so very subjective
[22:00] <raven{Az}> what about denial of orgasms, or holding them off, is that control as well?
[22:00] <bellakitty> yes
[22:00] <Tatsumi> hell yes
[22:00] <Tatsumi> lol
[22:00] <kinu{D`A}> yes
[22:00] <gin> of course, probably twofold....the longer the denial the more intense the final release in many cases
[22:00] <bellakitty> i have triggers to stop me from being able to orgasm...but keep climbing towards it...
[22:01] <ayli> I would think so yes raven.. :)
[22:01] <bellakitty> terrible...horrible things
[22:01] <Tatsumi> yeppers gin
[22:01] <raven{Az}> why control orgasms that way?
[22:01] <Tatsumi> the longer the denial the more intense the final release
[22:01] <bellakitty> to climb higher before release...for amusement...
[22:01] <Tatsumi> as gin just said:)
[22:01] <raven{Az}> what happens if the orgasm is denied to a point where the body can no longer reach orgasm and just hangs on that peak, never going over?
[22:01] <bellakitty> to allow him to do things he wishes with all that energy without worrying about me going over before he wishes
[22:01] * gin smiles at Tatsumi
[22:02] <ayli> ugghhh.. thats awful raven
[22:02] <bellakitty> you punch the dom>?
[22:02] <bellakitty> lol
[22:02] <SODOS> Dinner is ready, thank you all for the good conversation as usual.
[22:02] <SODOS> Night all/all
[22:02] <jakyra> lol della
[22:02] <raven{Az}> it happened to me gf.. LOL
[22:02] <ayli> you cry and say really bad words?
[22:02] <raven{Az}> makes sense to me..(All the whys)
[22:02] <SilversPet> My Lord enjoys seeing the struggle within me... When there are literally tears in my eyes and I'm shaking from what it's taking me to hold that back.
[22:02] * kinu{D`A} thinks its simple
[22:02] <raven{Az}> LOL bella..that would certainly release frustration..punching the dom.. LOL
[22:02] <Tatsumi> b/c he can - b/c a very aroused woman is less likely to contradict him - b/c he likes the way you bend so much more at his lightest touch - b/c your need becomes so apparent its an aphrodesiac all of its own
[22:03] <raven{Az}> yes SilversPet..
[22:03] <Tatsumi> and more.....
[22:03] <kinu{D`A}> the Master has control and if that is His wish..then so be it
[22:03] <bellakitty> that happened to us once....he gentled me down a bit...and then when my body had calmed down..he TOOK me...and my body didn't have time to realize that it couldn't...lol
[22:03] <raven{Az}> yes Tats..I agree..
[22:03] <raven{Az}> LOL bella..that would work.. :)
[22:03] * gin agrees with Tatsumi
[22:04] <raven{Az}> I like the denial means of orgasm control...for me, it's a major mental turn on and usually when I am finally allowed orgasm it is a multiple orgasm at the least...
[22:04] <Dartag> come kinu, we must go now
[22:04] <Dartag> goodnight everyone
[22:04] <raven{Az}> what about making the sub/slave orgasm repeatedly?
[22:04] <raven{Az}> be well Dartag and kinu :)
[22:04] <kinu{D`A}> Yes, Master
[22:04] * SilversPet laughs and nods.
[22:04] <simoriah> Oh yes, raven.... that's a horrible thing <g>
[22:04] <bellakitty> it sounds wonderful in theory...can be hell in practice...
[22:05] <ayli> would depend on how long it went on?
[22:05] <raven{Az}> does it eventually reach a poiont where it hurts simi?
[22:05] <Tatsumi> yeah, but even when its awful its wonderful:)
[22:05] <raven{Az}> I agree bella and simi...
[22:05] <SilversPet> Silver will force me to hold that back, so usually by the time I DO have an orgasm, it's so intense it's just unreal... And will usually leave me (literally) unable to breathe... I've had to use my roomie's inhaler a few times from it.
[22:05] <raven{Az}> yes I think so ayli...
[22:05] <ayli> a minute or two is nice.. 20 is ouch?
[22:05] <simoriah> I can't say it ever has
[22:05] <raven{Az}> I agree Tats..
[22:05] <gin> and if the denial extends to a point where orgasm becomes impossible then things need to be taken back to step one ... calm down and relax, stop the denials entirely and allow the orgasms flow until the level can be increased again
[22:05] <Tatsumi> it has hurt me, but i dont care much at the time
[22:05] <raven{Az}> I've had my clit become so sensitive from it that a very slight touch is both pleasurable and painful...
[22:05] <bellakitty> my body has given out on me...and he still pulls them out..it can hurt later
[22:06] <simoriah> it becomes very... er.... hypersensitive, but I wouldn't call it pain
[22:06] <raven{Az}> makes sense to me gin...give the body a chance to recoup..
[22:06] <gin> lol raven, i have had my clit so sensitive that i could cum merely by walking into the kitchen
[22:06] <SilversPet> Sensory overload.
[22:06] * gin nodsnodsnods
[22:06] <raven{Az}> done that a few times gin, made working (which I did at the time, on my feet alot) very interesting..
[22:06] * ayli Likes that.. when skin becomes so sensitive.. breath on your neck makes you just..
[22:07] <SilversPet> Once I couldn't wear pants for two days, or I'd have another orgasm. It was BAD.
[22:07] <bellakitty> lol..i am always like that ayli...
[22:07] <gin> that sensory overload can last a long time as well, for days on end
[22:07] <SilversPet> Not that I minded, but... *EG*
[22:07] <raven{Az}> but it backfired because eventually I had to learn to "ignore" the arousal so I could fucntion in my job...he did NOT like that..
[22:07] <gin> lol raven
[22:07] * Tatsumi is like that now
[22:07] <Tatsumi> its annoying as hell when i;m alone
[22:07] <raven{Az}> I love that too gf :)
[22:07] <bellakitty> yes.....
[22:08] <Tatsumi> but it's soon over:)
[22:08] <gin> but it is such a delicious feeling, a complete sense of overwhelming desire and warmth throughout the body
[22:08] <bellakitty> *smiles*
[22:08] <raven{Az}> is orgasm control something that should be discussed when people are negotiating (for lack of a better word) a relationship?
[22:08] <gin> sorta like subspace that lasts for days
[22:08] <raven{Az}> yes gin it is ;)
[22:08] <bellakitty> depends on how much either party wishes it...
[22:08] <Tatsumi> i think everything should be discussed raven:)
[22:09] <bellakitty> if it is a 'requirement'..then sure...
[22:09] <bellakitty> if it would be nifty but not a big deal either way...than no.
[22:09] <raven{Az}> so do I Tats...even the possibilities that aren't concrete definites...leaves less chance of nasty surprises and rebellion..
[22:09] <Tatsumi> yuppers
[22:09] <raven{Az}> true bella..but I tend to be of the mind that possibilities need to be discussed as well as the requirements...
[22:10] <raven{Az}> I tend to think it leads to less confusion or nasty surprises..
[22:10] <gin> i think it depends on the focus of the relationship. if that has nothing to do with both of your goals then no....i mean if you are a pain slut who wants to be beaten then there would be no need to negotiate that into things....but, if you are a sensualist who's primary focus is on stimulation then yes, orgasm control is something that needs to be negotiated....how far, limits, etc
[22:10] <bellakitty> lol...we are STILL discussing possiblities...and it has been 2 years...*grin*
[22:10] <Tatsumi> :)
[22:10] <raven{Az}> LOL bella..yeah those conversations don't ever seem to completely stop..something new always pops up given enough time.
[22:11] <gin> and given enough interaction with other Doms with ideas!
[22:11] * ayli laughs
[22:11] <Tatsumi> i like that:)
[22:11] <raven{Az}> I don't know if I can agree with that gin...I think it would depend on whether or not the dominant required that the submissive give control of his/her body to them completely...then anything pertaining to that body needs to be adressed...
[22:11] <bellakitty> lol..i have 'forbidden' Draco to talk to Ror, Flagg or Ken...lolol
[22:11] <bellakitty> for just that reason.
[22:12] <raven{Az}> LOL bella
[22:12] <simoriah> I'm sure that was very effective, bella
[22:12] <bellakitty> hey simi........was that sarcasm??? *grin*
[22:12] <SilversPet> Afk for a few... Need to tend to one of the servers. ;)
[22:12] <gin> that is why i mean raven, the focus of the relationship....if it is merely a play partner who wants to be flogged, then it is not necessary
[22:12] <simoriah> I don't know but I could send it to Flagg and maybe he could tell us!
[22:12] * simoriah smiles sadistic smile
[22:12] * bellakitty smiles at simi
[22:12] <raven{Az}> ok SilversPet
[22:12] <bellakitty> aren't you just so.....considerate....
[22:12] <raven{Az}> true gin..I can agree with that.. :)
[22:12] <Tatsumi> brb - need drinkage
[22:12] * gin smiles
[22:13] <Rorschach> <chuckle>
[22:13] <simoriah> love you BBF :)
[22:13] <simoriah> <g.
[22:13] * bellakitty laughs
[22:13] <bellakitty> the look Draco gave me when i told him that he was 'verboten' was classic
[22:13] * Amax nods to all...
[22:13] <Amax> Be well, each of you...
[22:13] <bellakitty> and way beong sarcasm......lol
[22:14] * Amax crosses to the exit...
[22:14] <gin> ok, not to change the subject, but i need to say this, with all due respect :) everytime i see the nick Rorschach i think of Horshack on Welcome Back Kotter....sorry
[22:14] *** Amax (mratliff@=Cdrlq-zj-353kxtcvvH407.dialsprint.net) has left #leather_and_roses
[22:14] *** Amax has left IRC
[22:14] <bellakitty> OOH...OOH...mistah kottah!!!!
[22:14] * raven{Az} laughs..
[22:14] * bellakitty ROFLMAO
[22:14] <raven{Az}> Ooo Ooo Oo!
[22:14] * gin giggles
[22:14] <gin> sorry
[22:14] <simoriah> I don't think Ror finds you all amusing
[22:15] * raven{Az} waves her arm and makes that oo ooo ooo noise..
[22:15] <raven{Az}> ok..that was bad..
[22:15] <raven{Az}> sorry
[22:15] * simoriah cracks up
[22:15] <gin> i am sorry
[22:15] * bellakitty stifles her giggling....
[22:15] <Rorschach> LMAO ... you're not the first to make such a comment ... but the others aren't able to make that one anymore <g>
[22:15] <bellakitty> sputtering out the sides of her mouth....
[22:15] * ayli hides her head so no one can hear her giggles
[22:15] <Rorschach> <-- getting out another barrel
[22:15] * simoriah slobbers down her chin bursting out in peals
[22:15] <gin> seems i have touched a nerve....sorry lol
[22:16] <simoriah> We're just kidding gin :)
[22:16] * bellakitty mantras....giggling is unseemly...giggling is unseemly
[22:16] * raven{Az} hops into the barrel figruing she is one of those headed for one..
[22:16] <simoriah> ROFL BELLA
[22:16] <raven{Az}> sorry Ror..I didn't mean to hurt your feelings..
[22:16] <Rorschach> LMAO ... nah ... you should the other names I've been called
[22:16] <simoriah> Hell, just the names I've called him
[22:16] <Rorschach> LMAO
[22:17] * ayli crawls into the barrel next to raven
[22:17] * simoriah is still laughing at bella's mantra
[22:17] * gin doesn't understand the whole barrel thing....must be a channel joke...sorry
[22:17] <bellakitty> laughing at mantras is unseemly!
[22:17] <Rorschach> Thank you, ayli. So kind. I'm running out of space in the basement
[22:17] <Rorschach> It's joke in very poor taste, gin. But such is my sense of humour <chuckle>
[22:17] <ayli> your welcome Horshack..
[22:17] <simoriah> I am an unseemly soul
[22:18] *** bryna has left IRC
[22:18] <ayli> errr.. uhh! I mean.. Ror.. yes.. thats what I meant
[22:18] <gin> ok, that reminded me of that SlaveMaster person
[22:18] <bellakitty> ummmm simi...you are an unseemly KEN>??????????
[22:18] <Rorschach> <chuckle> Can't wait till we visit, ayli
[22:18] <bellakitty> and here i thought you were the female Flagg....
[22:18] <simoriah> ME? The female Flagg?
[22:18] <simoriah> I'm not that smart
[22:18] * raven{Az} snuggles with ayli in the barrel..
[22:19] <ayli> uhmmmm.. you wouldn't wanna hurt me Ror.. I'm.. cute
[22:19] <raven{Az}> thanks all..good discussion tonight..I enjoyed it.does anyone have anything else to add?
[22:19] <simoriah> <has a custom barrel
[22:19] * ayli giggles and snuggles raven
[22:19] <bellakitty> you said it simi....a week or so ago....lol...you stated you were the FF
[22:19] <bellakitty> ummm ayli....Draco hurts me BECAUSE i am cute
[22:19] <simoriah> god I must have been drunk
[22:20] <bellakitty> lolololol
[22:20] <simoriah> OH I remember
[22:20] <bellakitty> well, we shall have to share with his Flaggness when he returns to chat.
[22:20] <simoriah> LoL sheesh
[22:20] <simoriah> Oh please do
[22:20] <bellakitty> lol
[22:20] <ayli> uhmm
[22:20] <raven{Az}> (End Of Discussion For Logging Purposes)