Discussion 41: Bringing BDSM Into A BDSM Relationship

My thanks to fae,{sonja}JP and AlstrBlck for holding the discussion in my absence, I appreciate it! Thanks guys! <raven>

[21:27] <{sonja}JP> ok - so we could talk ifn ya wanted star :)
[21:27] * {sonja}JP tries to think like raven
[21:27] <{sonja}JP> ~ouch~
[21:27] <{sonja}JP> lol
[21:27] <star{M}> *giggles*
[21:27] * fae smiles *
[21:28] <fae> i don't have the file for beginning discussion nights (the guidelines etc.)
[21:28] <{sonja}JP> hmmmmmm - good starting point - is it possible?
[21:28] <{sonja}JP> well - we are all friends - we can just wing it :)
[21:28] <{sonja}JP> this isnt the official discussion.......
[21:28] <fae> i can try to lead it if people want
[21:29] <{sonja}JP> that would only work if Aleister wanted to moderate.......He's busy oh yeah......or fae :)
[21:29] <star{M}> understood, sonja :)
[21:29] <fae> okay, normal ground rules *smiles*
[21:30] <{sonja}JP> um - kermi - is this your first visit?
[21:32] <fae> Leading question: How do you bring up the BDSM lifestyle to your SO?
[21:32] * {sonja}JP answers..........VERY carefully *g*
[21:34] <fae> (ground rules boil down to be courteous and constructive, don't attack people for their views and don't try to force your views on other people. There is no "right" or "wrong" answer in the pure sense of the word as long as it boils down to SSC (Safe Sane and Concentual))
[21:34] <{sonja}JP> ummm - SSC????
[21:34] <{sonja}JP> in THIS room - er fae, it has been a long time *g*
[21:34] <fae> SSC = Safe, Sane and Concentual (sp?)
[21:34] <star{M}> i have a question... just how did everyone find out about the lifestyle?
[21:34] <{sonja}JP> Consensual actually
[21:35] <fae> ty sonja
[21:35] * {sonja}JP was carefully lead by the hand by her Master (then just plain ole luver :))
[21:35] <star{M}> so you never had a vanilla relationship then, sonja?
[21:36] <{sonja}JP> married 7 years - so vanilla it makes my teeth ache to think about it
[21:36] <SoulWrkin> Star - I have always known about it in one way - what I didn't always know was that there were others. But I have been reading porn magazines since I was 8 or 9 or so - so I pretty much always knew BDSM was out there.
[21:36] <star{M}> wow... most interesting Soul, Sir...
[21:37] * {sonja}JP has thought about Ken's assertion that there is no such thing as "vanilla"
[21:37] <{sonja}JP> i think that what we commonly refer to as "vanilla" is a situation where there is no CLEAR PE......possibly one that fluctuates back and forth....with no structure
[21:38] <{sonja}JP> therefore.......
[21:38] <{sonja}JP> in SOME cases.......moving from vanilla to NOT, could be simply a formalization process.....
[21:39] <Mordax> In our case, it was a crystalization of the existing relationship
[21:39] <{sonja}JP> star - yall were "vanilla" before, right? - how did yall do it?
[21:39] <{sonja}JP> wow - ur fast..........LOL
[21:39] <star{M}> *giggles* Master can read minds :)
[21:40] * {sonja}JP thinks that is a course taught at some Master school
[21:40] <Mordax> but of course...
[21:40] <AlstrBlck> that and blinking 101.
[21:40] <{sonja}JP> LOL - Master doesnt blink.....He sorta shakes His head
[21:40] <{sonja}JP> and stares.......
[21:40] <{sonja}JP> till i "change my mind
[21:41] <star{M}> Master has "the look " :)
[21:41] * {sonja}JP is scared of the look
[21:41] <AlstrBlck> My friends joke I have something called "the power"
[21:42] * star{M} loves her Masters look :)
[21:42] <{sonja}JP> so - my question is........has anyone been in a "van" relationship where they felt there was NO way to move it?
[21:42] <star{M}> before i often felt like i was butting heads
[21:43] <{sonja}JP> looking back, i realized my ex was closer to sub than Dom - and i was sub having to - not Domme, but be in charge.......and i hated it.......till it almost choked me
[21:44] <{sonja}JP> but - well - anyone else?
[21:44] <star{M}> like we were both trying to get to the same place, but we were both trying so hard in a way that it just didnt work. Finding the lifestyle allowed me to finally let go and trust Master 100% . No more head butting :)
[21:45] <fae> okay, a question to follow up sonja's...Has anyone ever been in a relationship that started vanilla and went to Lifestyle, or brought a SO into the lifestyle?
[21:45] <Mordax> 17 years vanilla before turning BD
[21:45] <{sonja}JP> mine (with Master) did
[21:45] <fae> to answer sonja's for myself, i always start out a relationship by telling them i'm into an alternative lifestyle
[21:45] <star{M}> 18, Master, Sir
[21:45] <star{M}> :)
[21:45] <Mordax> oops
[21:46] <Mordax> 18
[21:46] * {sonja}JP had no idea what a "sub" or a "Dom" was until about 10 months ago.....
[21:46] <fairys_ki> i think that for some vanilla relationships, esp ones that have been together for years and years and patterns of behavior and "doing things" are set. it is very hard to take it to somehting else
[21:47] <Mordax> every relationship has some level of power exchange
[21:47] <{sonja}JP> true
[21:47] <{sonja}JP> did you find that star had been "subbing" to you all along - but yall just didnt really know?
[21:48] <{sonja}JP> does that make sense?
[21:48] <Mordax> absolutely
[21:48] <{sonja}JP> That is what happened with us.....
[21:48] <{sonja}JP> Master and i dated in highschool - then nothing for 10 years (very little contact)
[21:48] <Mordax> the root of most of the problems in our relationship were based on the fact that she wanted/needed for me to take control and I was not comfortable doing it
[21:49] <Mordax> I felt that taking that control was not right in a 'good' relationship
[21:49] <star{M}> i had been wanting him to take more control of things.. me, even.. lol!
[21:49] <{sonja}JP> then He met this girl - who splained it all to Him - and when He decided He wanted a sub......He knew just where to find one
[21:50] <Mordax> that is interesting, sonja. star was a sub in search of a Master.
[21:50] <{sonja}JP> lol............He realized that
[21:50] <{sonja}JP> i had been subbing to Him back in high school
[21:50] <star{M}> fortunately, the man i married wanted to be my Master :)
[21:51] <{sonja}JP> now, He had an explanation
[21:51] <star{M}> so for us it worked out VERY well :)
[21:51] <Mordax> except when she forgets who is the Master...
[21:51] <{sonja}JP> - its working well for us also
[21:52] <star{M}> *blushes*
[21:52] <blackrose> raven peeks in...sorry all..I'm having trouble with my computer tonight..
[21:52] * {sonja}JP never has that problem
[21:52] <{sonja}JP> never
[21:52] <{sonja}JP> never
[21:52] <{sonja}JP> lol
[21:52] <blackrose> I have to reformat the hard drive and reinstall windows..
[21:52] <blackrose> raven grumbles
[21:52] <{sonja}JP> hiya raven
[21:52] <star{M}> well... i try....
[21:52] <{sonja}JP> OH NO!
[21:52] <blackrose> would someone else please run the discussion and log it for me?
[21:52] <AlstrBlck> np, raven, we're trying to keep it going.
[21:52] <star{M}> *hugs* raven :)
[21:52] <AlstrBlck> fae is logging, as well as me.
[21:52] <{sonja}JP> we are running - but dont know about logging
[21:52] <blackrose> TY AB!!! :)))
[21:52] <blackrose> ty fae :))
[21:52] <{sonja}JP> oh well - there ya go
[21:52] <fae> g'mornin raven *hugs in sympathy*
[21:52] <blackrose> I appreciate it guys.. :)
[21:53] <blackrose> morning fae gf..:))) HUGS
[21:53] <blackrose> It is wonderful to see you again fae gf :))
[21:53] <AlstrBlck> But I admit, raven, am spending more time getting this other computer and network up and running.
[21:53] <blackrose> welp..keep it going guys..thank you very much...I'm going to go shoot my computer now..
[21:53] <fae> it's wonderful to see you too gf! wish you didn't have to re-install
[21:53] <blackrose> HUGS to all
[21:53] <{sonja}JP> HUGS
[21:53] <blackrose> so do I fae..but such goes life with computers
[21:53] <{sonja}JP> that sux
[21:53] * fae nods and continues helping AB as well as watching this channel *
[21:54] <star{M}> take care, raven :)
[21:54] <{sonja}JP> gluck raven
[21:54] <{sonja}JP> g' luck even
[21:56] * {sonja}JP wonders what would happen if she threw a temper tantrum.......
[21:57] <fae> anywho, there was a discussion around here somewhere *gryns*
[21:57] <{sonja}JP> has anyone here had PROBLEMS trying to switch?
[21:57] <fae> How do you let someone you care about know you're into lifestyle (methods)?
[21:57] * fae raises her hand to sonja's query *
[21:58] * {sonja}JP nods imperiously at fae.......you may speak............LOL
[21:58] <fae> twice now...met women i liked and introduced them to the lifestyle. First we just became really good friends, not quite sure what happened the last time, but one of the effects is that i'm back here
[21:58] * fae gryns *
[21:58] <fae> sorry, 'tis how i am
[21:58] <{sonja}JP> LOL fae :)
[21:59] <{sonja}JP> Master asked me to read this story.............
[21:59] <Mordax> star started asking general questions, like what I knew about
[21:59] <Mordax> BDSM, etc.
[22:00] <Mordax> Sorry, shift key is too close to the enter key...
[22:00] <fae> did you at the time?
[22:00] <{sonja}JP> lol - sure :)
[22:00] <Mordax> I knew the terms, not much about the lifestyle itself
[22:00] * {sonja}JP didnt really even know the terms........
[22:01] <star{M}> i was terrified to mention i was interested in it.. fear of being rejected and all
[22:01] <star{M}> or being told i was silly
[22:01] <Mordax> you are silly, but that is a different discussion...
[22:01] <star{M}> *giggles*
[22:02] <fae> so, is there any one question in particular you asked to see if he might be interested?
[22:02] <Mordax> Both of us were ignorant. We learned together
[22:03] <star{M}> but he took the time to find out more and together we discovered something wonderful we both felt was right and had been part of us all along to a degree
[22:04] <star{M}> oh man.. i told him of my experience in Gor when a R/L friend took me there....
[22:04] <fae> How did your lives change outwardly (if at all)?
[22:05] <star{M}> the kids dont see a whole lot of difference other than the fact that we are closer.. (get a room, mom! lol!)
[22:06] <{sonja}JP> lol
[22:06] <Mordax> I keep my instant messenger up on my PC at work in case she needs to contact me. She popped up a message that said 'Hi, Master' on my screen while I was doing a presentation and projecting my screen in 10 foot across on a projector!
[22:06] * {sonja}JP has lost a little bit of her closeness with her friends
[22:07] <{sonja}JP> ROFL
[22:07] <Mordax> So, outwardly, it has changed a little...
[22:07] <star{M}> uh.. ya! *blushes*
[22:07] * {sonja}JP falls off her chair
[22:08] <star{M}> now i am MUCH more careful and asks if He's alone first :)
[22:08] <{sonja}JP> Master learned right away to watch His ICQ carefully......
[22:08] * {sonja}JP is very - um - xplicit
[22:08] * fae giggles at the scene as something similar almost happened w/ her
[22:08] <Mordax> I turn it off when projecting now
[22:09] <Mordax> How have you lost closeness, sonja?
[22:09] <{sonja}JP> b/c i cant tell some of my friends yet
[22:09] <{sonja}JP> we have an unusual situation as far as friends go
[22:09] <{sonja}JP> b/c of our past
[22:10] <star{M}> behind closed doors, things are MUCH different than they were before, however *grins*
[22:10] <{sonja}JP> lol
[22:10] * fae smiles
[22:10] <Mordax> I don't know of any of my friends that i can tell.
[22:10] <{sonja}JP> we cant even tell some of our friends we are together
[22:10] <{sonja}JP> much less Master/slave
[22:10] <star{M}> i have only one, the friend that introduced me to the lifestyle
[22:11] <star{M}> no one else knows or would understand, i think
[22:12] * {sonja}JP raises her hand
[22:12] <{sonja}JP> mememememememememememe!!!!!!!111
[22:16] <{sonja}JP> i have always thought it would be easy for a girl to tell her "guy" that she wants to be sub and for him to dominate her - but i guess that just isnt true......
[22:16] <{sonja}JP> i can see where a "good" guy would be a bit scared of the whole thing
[22:17] <Mordax> It goes against what I have always been taught about respecting women...
[22:17] <fae> it's worse when it's the guy who is to be the sub (personal experience)
[22:17] <{sonja}JP> i can understand that
[22:17] <{sonja}JP> i can very well see that too
[22:18] <{sonja}JP> my ex needs a domme....but i dont think he would be very amenable to one
[22:19] <star{M}> but He is learning to be a very good Master :) *smiles at Master*
[22:20] <Mordax> So which is more common, starting a BDSM relationship, or starting a vanilla and moving to the lifestyle?
[22:20] <{sonja}JP> i dont see where the respect changes - i mean - looking at it from the outside maybe, but the two people involved usually know that the respect is still there, as strong, if not stronger, than ever
[22:21] <{sonja}JP> that's a good question Mordax
[22:21] <{sonja}JP> i would venture to say that for "first" times, the latter is more common
[22:21] <{sonja}JP> but for overall relationships, the former would be more common.........
[22:22] <{sonja}JP> just a guess tho
[22:23] <Mordax> Makes sense to me. now that I understand myself better, my next wife will be a sub...
(Mordax's comment was a joke, laughter and teasing started, and discussion ended there)

	Presents: BDSM Discussion 41 Bringing BDSM Into A Vanilla Relationship All Comments Posted Here With Permission Of The Participants
	My thanks to fae,{sonja}JP and AlstrBlck for holding the discussion in my absence, I appreciate it! Thanks guys! <raven> [21:27] <{sonja}JP> ok - so we could talk ifn ya wanted star :) [21:27] * {sonja}JP tries to think like raven [21:27] <{sonja}JP> ~ouch~ [21:27] <{sonja}JP> lol [21:27] <star{M}> giggles [21:27] * fae smiles * [21:28] <fae> i don't have the file for beginning discussion nights (the guidelines etc.) [21:28] <{sonja}JP> hmmmmmm - good starting point - is it possible? [21:28] <{sonja}JP> well - we are all friends - we can just wing it :) [21:28] <{sonja}JP> this isnt the official discussion....... [21:28] <fae> i can try to lead it if people want [21:29] <{sonja}JP> that would only work if Aleister wanted to moderate.......He's busy oh yeah......or fae :) [21:29] <star{M}> understood, sonja :) [21:29] <fae> okay, normal ground rules smiles [21:30] <{sonja}JP> um - kermi - is this your first visit? [21:32] <fae> Leading question: How do you bring up the BDSM lifestyle to your SO? [21:32] * {sonja}JP answers..........VERY carefully g [21:34] <fae> (ground rules boil down to be courteous and constructive, don't attack people for their views and don't try to force your views on other people. There is no "right" or "wrong" answer in the pure sense of the word as long as it boils down to SSC (Safe Sane and Concentual)) [21:34] <{sonja}JP> ummm - SSC???? [21:34] <{sonja}JP> in THIS room - er fae, it has been a long time g [21:34] <fae> SSC = Safe, Sane and Concentual (sp?) [21:34] <star{M}> i have a question... just how did everyone find out about the lifestyle? [21:34] <{sonja}JP> Consensual actually [21:35] <fae> ty sonja [21:35] * {sonja}JP was carefully lead by the hand by her Master (then just plain ole luver :)) [21:35] <star{M}> so you never had a vanilla relationship then, sonja? [21:36] <{sonja}JP> married 7 years - so vanilla it makes my teeth ache to think about it [21:36] <SoulWrkin> Star - I have always known about it in one way - what I didn't always know was that there were others. But I have been reading porn magazines since I was 8 or 9 or so - so I pretty much always knew BDSM was out there. [21:36] <star{M}> wow... most interesting Soul, Sir... [21:37] * {sonja}JP has thought about Ken's assertion that there is no such thing as "vanilla" [21:37] <{sonja}JP> i think that what we commonly refer to as "vanilla" is a situation where there is no CLEAR PE......possibly one that fluctuates back and forth....with no structure [21:38] <{sonja}JP> therefore....... [21:38] <{sonja}JP> in SOME cases.......moving from vanilla to NOT, could be simply a formalization process..... [21:39] <Mordax> In our case, it was a crystalization of the existing relationship [21:39] <{sonja}JP> star - yall were "vanilla" before, right? - how did yall do it? [21:39] <{sonja}JP> wow - ur fast..........LOL [21:39] <star{M}> giggles Master can read minds :) [21:40] * {sonja}JP thinks that is a course taught at some Master school [21:40] <Mordax> but of course... [21:40] <AlstrBlck> that and blinking 101. [21:40] <{sonja}JP> LOL - Master doesnt blink.....He sorta shakes His head [21:40] <{sonja}JP> and stares....... [21:40] <{sonja}JP> till i "change my mind [21:41] <star{M}> Master has "the look " :) [21:41] * {sonja}JP is scared of the look [21:41] <AlstrBlck> My friends joke I have something called "the power" [21:42] * star{M} loves her Masters look :) [21:42] <{sonja}JP> so - my question is........has anyone been in a "van" relationship where they felt there was NO way to move it? [21:42] <star{M}> before i often felt like i was butting heads [21:43] <{sonja}JP> looking back, i realized my ex was closer to sub than Dom - and i was sub having to - not Domme, but be in charge.......and i hated it.......till it almost choked me [21:44] <{sonja}JP> but - well - anyone else? [21:44] <star{M}> like we were both trying to get to the same place, but we were both trying so hard in a way that it just didnt work. Finding the lifestyle allowed me to finally let go and trust Master 100% . No more head butting :) [21:45] <fae> okay, a question to follow up sonja's...Has anyone ever been in a relationship that started vanilla and went to Lifestyle, or brought a SO into the lifestyle? [21:45] <Mordax> 17 years vanilla before turning BD [21:45] <{sonja}JP> mine (with Master) did [21:45] <fae> to answer sonja's for myself, i always start out a relationship by telling them i'm into an alternative lifestyle [21:45] <star{M}> 18, Master, Sir [21:45] <star{M}> :) [21:45] <Mordax> oops [21:46] <Mordax> 18 [21:46] * {sonja}JP had no idea what a "sub" or a "Dom" was until about 10 months ago..... [21:46] <fairys_ki> i think that for some vanilla relationships, esp ones that have been together for years and years and patterns of behavior and "doing things" are set. it is very hard to take it to somehting else [21:47] <Mordax> every relationship has some level of power exchange [21:47] <{sonja}JP> true [21:47] <{sonja}JP> did you find that star had been "subbing" to you all along - but yall just didnt really know? [21:48] <{sonja}JP> does that make sense? [21:48] <Mordax> absolutely [21:48] <{sonja}JP> That is what happened with us..... [21:48] <{sonja}JP> Master and i dated in highschool - then nothing for 10 years (very little contact) [21:48] <Mordax> the root of most of the problems in our relationship were based on the fact that she wanted/needed for me to take control and I was not comfortable doing it [21:49] <Mordax> I felt that taking that control was not right in a 'good' relationship [21:49] <star{M}> i had been wanting him to take more control of things.. me, even.. lol! [21:49] <{sonja}JP> then He met this girl - who splained it all to Him - and when He decided He wanted a sub......He knew just where to find one [21:50] <Mordax> that is interesting, sonja. star was a sub in search of a Master. [21:50] <{sonja}JP> lol............He realized that [21:50] <{sonja}JP> i had been subbing to Him back in high school [21:50] <star{M}> fortunately, the man i married wanted to be my Master :) [21:51] <{sonja}JP> now, He had an explanation [21:51] <star{M}> so for us it worked out VERY well :) [21:51] <Mordax> except when she forgets who is the Master... [21:51] <{sonja}JP> - its working well for us also [21:52] <star{M}> blushes [21:52] <blackrose> raven peeks in...sorry all..I'm having trouble with my computer tonight.. [21:52] * {sonja}JP never has that problem [21:52] <{sonja}JP> never [21:52] <{sonja}JP> never [21:52] <{sonja}JP> lol [21:52] <blackrose> I have to reformat the hard drive and reinstall windows.. [21:52] <blackrose> raven grumbles [21:52] <{sonja}JP> hiya raven [21:52] <star{M}> well... i try.... [21:52] <{sonja}JP> OH NO! [21:52] <blackrose> would someone else please run the discussion and log it for me? [21:52] <AlstrBlck> np, raven, we're trying to keep it going. [21:52] <star{M}> hugs raven :) [21:52] <AlstrBlck> fae is logging, as well as me. [21:52] <{sonja}JP> we are running - but dont know about logging [21:52] <blackrose> TY AB!!! :))) [21:52] <blackrose> ty fae :)) [21:52] <{sonja}JP> oh well - there ya go [21:52] <fae> g'mornin raven hugs in sympathy [21:52] <blackrose> I appreciate it guys.. :) [21:53] <blackrose> morning fae gf..:))) HUGS [21:53] <blackrose> It is wonderful to see you again fae gf :)) [21:53] <AlstrBlck> But I admit, raven, am spending more time getting this other computer and network up and running. [21:53] <blackrose> welp..keep it going guys..thank you very much...I'm going to go shoot my computer now.. [21:53] <fae> it's wonderful to see you too gf! wish you didn't have to re-install [21:53] <blackrose> HUGS to all [21:53] <{sonja}JP> HUGS [21:53] <blackrose> so do I fae..but such goes life with computers [21:53] <{sonja}JP> that sux [21:53] * fae nods and continues helping AB as well as watching this channel * [21:54] <star{M}> take care, raven :) [21:54] <{sonja}JP> gluck raven [21:54] <{sonja}JP> g' luck even [21:56] * {sonja}JP wonders what would happen if she threw a temper tantrum....... [21:57] <fae> anywho, there was a discussion around here somewhere gryns [21:57] <{sonja}JP> has anyone here had PROBLEMS trying to switch? [21:57] <fae> How do you let someone you care about know you're into lifestyle (methods)? [21:57] * fae raises her hand to sonja's query * [21:58] * {sonja}JP nods imperiously at fae.......you may speak............LOL [21:58] <fae> twice now...met women i liked and introduced them to the lifestyle. First we just became really good friends, not quite sure what happened the last time, but one of the effects is that i'm back here [21:58] * fae gryns * [21:58] <fae> sorry, 'tis how i am [21:58] <{sonja}JP> LOL fae :) [21:59] <{sonja}JP> Master asked me to read this story............. [21:59] <Mordax> star started asking general questions, like what I knew about [21:59] <Mordax> BDSM, etc. [22:00] <Mordax> Sorry, shift key is too close to the enter key... [22:00] <fae> did you at the time? [22:00] <{sonja}JP> lol - sure :) [22:00] <Mordax> I knew the terms, not much about the lifestyle itself [22:00] * {sonja}JP didnt really even know the terms........ [22:01] <star{M}> i was terrified to mention i was interested in it.. fear of being rejected and all [22:01] <star{M}> or being told i was silly [22:01] <Mordax> you are silly, but that is a different discussion... [22:01] <star{M}> giggles [22:02] <fae> so, is there any one question in particular you asked to see if he might be interested? [22:02] <Mordax> Both of us were ignorant. We learned together [22:03] <star{M}> but he took the time to find out more and together we discovered something wonderful we both felt was right and had been part of us all along to a degree [22:04] <star{M}> oh man.. i told him of my experience in Gor when a R/L friend took me there.... [22:04] <fae> How did your lives change outwardly (if at all)? [22:05] <star{M}> the kids dont see a whole lot of difference other than the fact that we are closer.. (get a room, mom! lol!) [22:06] <{sonja}JP> lol [22:06] <Mordax> I keep my instant messenger up on my PC at work in case she needs to contact me. She popped up a message that said 'Hi, Master' on my screen while I was doing a presentation and projecting my screen in 10 foot across on a projector! [22:06] * {sonja}JP has lost a little bit of her closeness with her friends [22:07] <{sonja}JP> ROFL [22:07] <Mordax> So, outwardly, it has changed a little... [22:07] <star{M}> uh.. ya! blushes [22:07] * {sonja}JP falls off her chair [22:08] <star{M}> now i am MUCH more careful and asks if He's alone first :) [22:08] <{sonja}JP> Master learned right away to watch His ICQ carefully...... [22:08] * {sonja}JP is very - um - xplicit [22:08] * fae giggles at the scene as something similar almost happened w/ her [22:08] <Mordax> I turn it off when projecting now [22:09] <Mordax> How have you lost closeness, sonja? [22:09] <{sonja}JP> b/c i cant tell some of my friends yet [22:09] <{sonja}JP> we have an unusual situation as far as friends go [22:09] <{sonja}JP> b/c of our past [22:10] <star{M}> behind closed doors, things are MUCH different than they were before, however grins [22:10] <{sonja}JP> lol [22:10] * fae smiles [22:10] <Mordax> I don't know of any of my friends that i can tell. [22:10] <{sonja}JP> we cant even tell some of our friends we are together [22:10] <{sonja}JP> much less Master/slave [22:10] <star{M}> i have only one, the friend that introduced me to the lifestyle [22:11] <star{M}> no one else knows or would understand, i think [22:12] * {sonja}JP raises her hand [22:12] <{sonja}JP> mememememememememememe!!!!!!!111 [22:16] <{sonja}JP> i have always thought it would be easy for a girl to tell her "guy" that she wants to be sub and for him to dominate her - but i guess that just isnt true...... [22:16] <{sonja}JP> i can see where a "good" guy would be a bit scared of the whole thing [22:17] <Mordax> It goes against what I have always been taught about respecting women... [22:17] <fae> it's worse when it's the guy who is to be the sub (personal experience) [22:17] <{sonja}JP> i can understand that [22:17] <{sonja}JP> i can very well see that too [22:18] <{sonja}JP> my ex needs a domme....but i dont think he would be very amenable to one [22:19] <star{M}> but He is learning to be a very good Master :) smiles at Master [22:20] <Mordax> So which is more common, starting a BDSM relationship, or starting a vanilla and moving to the lifestyle? [22:20] <{sonja}JP> i dont see where the respect changes - i mean - looking at it from the outside maybe, but the two people involved usually know that the respect is still there, as strong, if not stronger, than ever [22:21] <{sonja}JP> that's a good question Mordax [22:21] <{sonja}JP> i would venture to say that for "first" times, the latter is more common [22:21] <{sonja}JP> but for overall relationships, the former would be more common......... [22:22] <{sonja}JP> just a guess tho [22:23] <Mordax> Makes sense to me. now that I understand myself better, my next wife will be a sub... (Mordax's comment was a joke, laughter and teasing started, and discussion ended there)