Presents:
BDSM Discussion 40
Safety
In BDSM
All Comments Posted Here With Permission Of The Participants
[21:08] *
raven{Az} says Hello and welcome to #Leather_and_Roses' weekly discussions
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[21:09] <raven{Az}> I hope you enjoy tonight's discussion, the topic is Safety In BDSM Play
[21:09] <raven{Az}> Let's start with this..what general safety things do you keep in mind for any type of play?
[21:10] <ayli> ask what medical conditions, if any exsist, for both parties
[21:10] <nessa{JW}> a fire extinguisher
[21:10] * {sonja}JP thinks preparation
[21:10] <{sonja}JP> such as a fire ext. for any sort of fire play........first aid kit for many (including knife play, etc)
[21:11] <raven{Az}> ok...what specific safety measures are taken in bondage?
[21:13] <ayli> well.. watch to make sure the person tied up isn't losing circulation .. some people keep a knife/something like that close by so they can cut the ropes if need be..
[21:13] <raven{Az}> how can you tell if they are losing circulation?
[21:13] <{sonja}JP> extremities turn blue
[21:14] <Blood|ord> they turn blue and gets cold
[21:14] * raven{Az} nods..
[21:14] <raven{Az}> One also has to learn some anatomy so that ropes are not bound too tighlty over major nerves..thus possibly causing damage to that nerve..
[21:16] <raven{Az}> what about areas of the body that are OK to hit with just about anything?
[21:16] <ayli> butt.. thighs.. uhmm
[21:16] <{sonja}JP> backs of the thighs???
[21:16] <simi> Do you mean knowing which ones?
[21:16] <Blood|ord> make sure that you don´t hit/cut a person over a major vein
[21:18] <raven{Az}> yes simi..
[21:18] <simi> Ah okay
[21:18] <raven{Az}> backs of thighs are ok..
[21:18] <simi> any large areas of muscle
[21:18] <simi> or fatty tissue
[21:18] <raven{Az}> basically, I think itis considered OK to strike a fleshy part of the body heavier than areas that the bone is more prominent (spine for example)
[21:19] <raven{Az}> yes simi :)
[21:19] <raven{Az}> what about areas like shoulders, breasts, abdomens and calves?
[21:19] <Rorsch> It does vary some depending on the individual ...
[21:19] <ayli> you can hit there pretty much with anything can't you?
[21:19] <ayli> not abdomen
[21:19] <Rorsch> Depending on medical and health issues
[21:20] <simi> well those are all areas that are open target practice as far as we're concerned
[21:20] <raven{Az}> yesit does Ror
[21:20] <raven{Az}> they are as far as I am concerned as well simi..
[21:20] <Rorsch> Which is why I shy away from "play" with people I don't know very well
[21:20] <simi> body type does figure quite a bit into the equation Chief, I'd agree
[21:20] <raven{Az}> but, that gets into what exactly is safe and who decides such..which we will touch upon in a few..I just wanted to get the basic info out first :)
[21:21] <raven{Az}> Makes sense to me Ror..
[21:21] <Rorsch> Well, there's a list of reasons, but I would be digressing
[21:21] <raven{Az}> question..the abdomen...is it something to strike with a more solid object (say a wooden paddle or thick cane) or is it an area that should be utilized more lightly..and if so..why?
[21:21] <raven{Az}> we'll get there Ror :)
[21:22] <ayli> I would think it would be an .. more carefull area
[21:22] <Rorsch> Some people's abs are very sensitive
[21:22] <Rorsch> Then you have people who have "six-pack abs"
[21:23] <raven{Az}> agreed Ror.. :)
[21:24] <raven{Az}> when it comes to striking a sub, are there any generalized safety measures that one should at least keep in mind ?
[21:25] <ayli> watch thier reaction?
[21:25] <raven{Az}> agreed ayli..
[21:25] <raven{Az}> how about discussing before play commences what each considers to be acceptable and unacceptable?
[21:26] <ayli> yep
[21:26] <raven{Az}> (in the case of a play partner thing..or the very beginning of a relationship)
[21:26] <Blood|ord> yepp
[21:26] <Rorsch> Agreed
[21:26] <Blood|ord> there must be a strong trust between the partners
[21:26] <raven{Az}> do you think it is neccessary for those participating to know CPR and the signs of shock?
[21:26] <raven{Az}> agreed Blood|ord
[21:27] <Blood|ord> that depends on what play they are doing
[21:27] <ayli> I think they should at least have a basic knowledge of first aid yea
[21:27] <raven{Az}> I agree ayli..
[21:28] <raven{Az}> Blood|ord, I think that if sub space is part of the desired outcome of a scene (any scene) then basic knowledge of shock should be known by the dominant..and cpr, personally, I think it's a good thing for anyone to know whether they are in bdsm or not..
[21:28] <Blood|ord> i agree raven{Az}
[21:28] <raven{Az}> what about knowing how to use the implements correctly? Like, how to strike with a cane so as not to cause undesired damage?
[21:29] <Blood|ord> very importan. needs to know how hard you can strike a partner with diiferents implents with out causing serius damage with them
[21:29] <Rorsch> Seems like a given to me
[21:29] <ayli> well.. I would thinking knowing the effect anything you do would be importaint.. such as silk scarves.. alot of people start out using them.. the problem being that they tighten up considerably with the subs movement.. if you wern't aware of that, and were not paying attention it could easily cause damage
[21:30] <ayli> yes Rorsch.. but there are some things that people don't consider.. dangerious.. that could easily turn out to be so..
[21:30] <raven{Az}> true Ror..but unfortunately that isn't always a given..
[21:30] <Rorsch> I know ... common sense isn't as common as the idea implies
[21:31] <raven{Az}> ok..seems like we've covered the large general area of safety issues...unless anyone has anything else to add, I will bring it into a more controversial discussion?
[21:31] <raven{Az}> true again Ror.. :)
[21:31] * ayli giggles.. it's almost damned uncommon
[21:31] <raven{Az}> LOL agreed gf!
[21:31] <Rorsch> Indeed, ayli ... scares me sometimes
[21:31] <ayli> it should..
[21:31] <raven{Az}> I wish common sense were more common because I think there'd be alot less problems in the world..
[21:32] <{sonja}JP> and a lot less idiots?
[21:32] <raven{Az}> agreed sonja!
[21:32] <raven{Az}> OK then..since we have no other generalized areas tossed out..let's get into nitty gritty stuff...what exactly is safe?
[21:32] <{sonja}JP> that varies from person to person
[21:33] <raven{Az}> yes it does sonja...so the only way to answer that question is from personal viewpoint..
[21:33] <raven{Az}> maybe I should reword it..what does safe mean to you?
[21:33] <{sonja}JP> not playing with someone i dont literally trust with my life
[21:34] <{sonja}JP> within that context...........anything
[21:34] <Rorsch> Safe to me would be in a situation I'm relatively in control of
[21:34] <raven{Az}> for me, it is doing things that I consider to have acceptable risks....but for me, if the risks outwiegh any possible benefit, then the activity is deemed unsafe for me..
[21:34] <ayli> gods.. thats hard
[21:35] *** raven{Az} is now known as raven^Ron
[21:35] <raven^Ron> Ron: Hello all <smile>
[21:35] <Rorsch> Heya Ron
[21:36] * Amax nods to Ron
[21:36] <{sonja}JP> hi Ron
[21:36] <raven^Ron> Ron: it's safe as long as I'm not bleeding <chuckle>
[21:36] <ayli> I guess it's safe as long as I trust the person in control..
[21:36] <raven^Ron> raven giggles..ahhhh so it's ok if I bleed then??
[21:36] <raven^Ron> raven winks at Ron
[21:36] <raven^Ron> Ron: Only a little bit love..<chuckle>
[21:37] <raven^Ron> raven cracks her knuckles and puts on her little secretary suit...here we go..
[21:37] <Ror> damn
[21:37] <raven^Ron> raven: In BDSM, is safety a concern with the kinds of play we engage in? Or should all caution be thrown to the winds?
[21:37] <{sonja}JP> oooooohhh raven is cute in that outfit :)
[21:38] <{sonja}JP> there goes that common sense need again
[21:38] <raven^Ron> raven: thanks sonja! LOL and who knows, maybe Ron the boss will spank his "naughty secretary" <giggle>
[21:38] <raven^Ron> Ron: you bet your ass on that..anyway...
[21:38] <ayli> well.. yes.. safety should always be considered.. but.. it's always going to be a personal limit
[21:38] <raven^Ron> ok, common sense affects things how sonja?
[21:38] <{sonja}JP> caution should never be thrown to the wind.......there is usually a reason for CAUTION
[21:38] <raven^Ron> I agree ayli
[21:38] <ayli> (personal to the particular relationship)
[21:38] <raven^Ron> Ron: Yes, safety is always a concern for me
[21:38] <simi> I think that's an individual decision, and one that can't be determined for a group as a whole
[21:38] <ayli> you naughty raven??
[21:38] <raven^Ron> technically true simi...
[21:39] * ayli looks shocked ;)
[21:39] <simi> What to you may seem like throwing caution to the wind may indeed be rather thoughtful execution on our part
[21:39] <raven^Ron> raven: hell no. I'm a good girl
[21:39] <{sonja}JP> raven is always naughty
[21:39] <raven^Ron> Ron: yes raven is naughty...
[21:39] <{sonja}JP> lol
[21:39] <raven^Ron> true simi...
[21:39] * {sonja}JP was referring to things like blade play without "bandaids" nearby
[21:40] <raven^Ron> raven: I do however think there is a difference between throwing caution to the wind and engaging in activities that may seem to be without caution..
[21:40] <{sonja}JP> breath play wihtout the one doing the restriction knowing CPR
[21:40] <simi> <has no bandaids, and get blood drawn often... am I careless?
[21:40] <raven^Ron> raven: throwing caution to the winds would possibly contain such things as not watching where you are actually hitting..being careless..
[21:40] * {sonja}JP thinks so
[21:40] <raven^Ron> no simi..
[21:40] <simi> Fair enough sonja, you're entitled to your opinion :)
[21:41] <simi> the kind of cutting we do, a band-aid ain't gonna do anything but wash off in the flood
[21:41] <{sonja}JP> r you doing it cause the "risk" is exciting to you or because you forgot to buy them?
[21:41] <raven^Ron> I seriously doubt simi that you would be careless about such a thing as cutting..or more accurately that Ror would be
[21:41] <simi> Because a band-aid is useless, sonja
[21:41] <{sonja}JP> well i said "bandaids" meaning guaze......or something useful...
[21:41] <{sonja}JP> gauze even
[21:42] <{sonja}JP> bandages
[21:42] <raven^Ron> makes sense to me..with a deep cut, a band aid is about as useful as sticking your thumb in a mud damn to stop leaks..
[21:42] <{sonja}JP> whatever would be necessary
[21:42] <{sonja}JP> TOWELS????
[21:42] <simi> we do have towels, clean shirts.... but they aren't piled next to the chair
[21:42] <simi> anything can serve as a tourniquet
[21:43] <ayli> taking proper precautions so that you don't loose to much blood, and perhaps even making sure that the knowledge is there to take care of it should something unforseen happen, as well as knowing where the major veins and artieries are so that you Don't cut something stupid?
[21:43] <raven^Ron> Ron: Isn't a tourniquet a last minute life saving device done if someone cuts a major artery or vein?
[21:43] <{sonja}JP> well, i will admit i am a preparation freak.......my fav motto is "i would rather have it and not use it than not have it"
[21:43] <simi> Yup, and frankly, unless someone's a free bleeder, the wound will clot
[21:43] <{sonja}JP> i do the same with toys, etc
[21:44] <simi> unless you've jabbed an artery or something
[21:45] <raven^Ron> simi, I cant say whether or not,your not having bandaids directly on hand is careless since I certainly didn't have them sitting on the nightstand when Ron took a razor to me...granted he didn't cut very deeply..but he could have by mistake..however, the items needed are not all that far away should something go wrong...
[21:45] <{sonja}JP> so, in other words, you are aware of the dangers - and you both know what to do in case of accident - and are capable of DOing it......right?
[21:45] <{sonja}JP> asking simi
[21:45] <raven^Ron> yes simi..I can agree with that..it sounds to me like you handle cutting in a manner that is safe in your eyes..and it sure doesn't sound to me like you're being unsafe about it either..
[21:46] <simi> Besides, blood running down pale white flesh is really pretty :)
[21:46] <raven^Ron> yes it is simi :)))
[21:46] <simi> I know some basics about medicine, though I'm no Marcus Welby.
[21:47] <simi> However, I can't say that, put to the test, I'd have the faculties to use my knowledge anyhow
[21:47] <Rorsch> I've had a few courses in first aid and CPR training ... thankfully haven't had an occasion to use them
[21:47] <raven^Ron> However, I was thinking more along the lines of someone using an implement such as a single tail, without any experience at all...or doing a deep cutting without knowing first aid, or really having no idea of how "deep" is ok enough so as not to cut an artery or something...that kind of carelessness..
[21:48] <simi> Ah, well... I can't imagine what would prompt a person to do such a thing.
[21:48] <{sonja}JP> thank you raven.......that is what i was referring to as well....
[21:48] <Rorsch> Well, that's why I've always been so big on the "mentor" concept
[21:48] <raven^Ron> Ron: I've had 15 courses of first aid and cpr type things..every year basically
[21:48] <Rorsch> I prefer to learn the initial basics from someone who knows
[21:48] <raven^Ron> raven: makes sense to me Ror..
[21:49] <simi> He's really responsible that way. I guess I can't fathom someone choosing a partner who wasn't
[21:49] <Rorsch> I am grateful I had a few very good mentors
[21:49] <{sonja}JP> to me......choosing such a partner would be "throwing caution to the wind"
[21:50] <simi> Definitely agreed, sonja
[21:50] <{sonja}JP> the non-responsible type, i mean
[21:50] <raven^Ron> Ron: I would want to get someone to show me how to do things like cutting before I tried anything more than superficial cuts or scratches..
[21:50] <Blood|ord> agreed
[21:50] <raven^Ron> I agree there sonja..
[21:50] <raven^Ron> So how do you know if a person has the experience that they say they do?
[21:50] <simi> Watching
[21:50] <raven^Ron> Ron: Watch them play with someone else before you let them play with you
[21:51] <raven^Ron> Ron: ^5 simi
[21:51] <raven^Ron> raven giggles..gmta
[21:51] <Rorsch> Cutting was actually one of those I learned from reading and experimentation. Didn't have mentor on that one
[21:51] <{sonja}JP> there ya go
[21:51] <simi> ^5 Ron :)
[21:51] <Blood|ord> learn the person well before going into play with that person
[21:51] <Rorsch> I started out very light ... scratching only
[21:51] <raven^Ron> experimenting in what way Ror? I have heard people say they've used peaches and oranges and such to practice cutting on..getting a feel for pressure and such..
[21:51] <raven^Ron> makes sense..
[21:51] <raven^Ron> I agree Blood|ord
[21:52] <simi> I've watched Flagg punch.. I wanted to experience it. Who better to experience it with. And as an additional benefit, Ror learned how to do it also. It was a win-win situation
[21:52] <raven^Ron> Ron: I still think I'd want a mentor to show me more involved cutting techniques, I'd hate to cut off raven's nipple...besides, I don't think she'd forgive me for that one..and I'd miss it too <chuckle>
[21:52] <raven^Ron> raven giggles..
[21:52] <Blood|ord> the only way to really know if the person knows it is by knowing the person. you can´t start by scratching because if the person don´t know how deep to cut then they will not know how to just scrach
[21:52] <raven^Ron> makes sense to me simi..but what about those who don't have the option of watching someone play with another?
[21:53] <{sonja}JP> Master wouldnt be able to forgive HIMself if He cut off a nipple.......lol
[21:53] <raven^Ron> LOLOL sonja
[21:53] <simi> I don't know, raven.... that's not my reality
[21:53] <raven^Ron> I undrstand simi
[21:53] <Rorsch> Well, actually it was mostly on myself and Mine. I got to know the knife and did only very light things with it for a long time
[21:53] <simi> I'm trying to come up with an answer for you though
[21:53] <raven^Ron> Ron: If you don't have the option to watch a prospective play partner play with someone else..then you might want to have someone you trust to be there and watch while he/she plays with you
[21:54] <simi> then he traded the knife for scalpels and straight razors... and it's been hell ever since <g>
[21:54] <{sonja}JP> that kinda sounds like fun :)
[21:54] <raven^Ron> I can see how that would work Ror..you'd gain experience with the knife, and the knowledge of how to apply it to achieve the effect you want..
[21:54] <raven^Ron> LOLOL simi
[21:54] <raven^Ron> Ron: LOL simi
[21:54] <Rorsch> <chuckle>
[21:54] <simi> You can tell I'm just devastated by this turn of events
[21:54] <raven^Ron> raven: I get the feeling that is a hell you enjoy simi <giggle>
[21:54] * simi cracks up
[21:54] <raven^Ron> Oh yeah simi..totally crushed..
[21:54] <raven^Ron> raven giggles
[21:54] <Rorsch> Exactly, Raven/Ron
[21:54] <simi> Oh yes raven <holding hand to forehead?
[21:55] <Blood|ord> if you don´t know if the person knows how to cut than take that persons hand and let the person hold the knife and then cutting you with the help of your own hand so the other person can feel how hard to cut for a sort of level damage
[21:55] <raven^Ron> raven whispers to simi..don't forget to faint now..
[21:55] <simi> LMAO
[21:55] * simi does her Camille imitation
[21:55] <raven^Ron> LOL simi
[21:55] <raven^Ron> Ron: you poor girl simi
[21:55] <raven^Ron> makes sense to me Blood|ord...but I'm not sure that is always a practical option, though it could work :)
[21:55] * ayli fans simi
[21:56] <simi> Start on a tough spot... the ass is pretty hard to maim
[21:56] <simi> I wouldn't start on a breast
[21:56] * {sonja}JP gets the smelling salts
[21:56] <raven^Ron> ok..back on topic..do you think there is too much emphasis put on safety in the lifestyle?
[21:56] <{sonja}JP> no
[21:56] <Rorsch> Safety is good. I'm not big on mantra, however
[21:57] <ayli> in some ways.. yes
[21:57] <raven^Ron> Ron: no I don't think there is..let's be real, this can be dangerous, even putting someone into subspace could cause shock and in a worst case scenario, they could die from that shock..
[21:57] <Blood|ord> raven^Ron well then you have at least instructed the person so that person have some basic knowledge of how hard he can cut. and if you find that person nervous while you are doing it i can bet that, that person don´t have a clue about how to cut
[21:57] <{sonja}JP> .......there are too many people out there just learning........i think that it is very good that they are bombarded with SAFETY!!!!!!....then once they get comfortable......they will make their own way
[21:57] <simi> I think there are methodologies which in and of itself are not guarantees of safety. If anything annoys me, it's the idea that if you just do "A,B and C" then you'll be "safe"
[21:57] <ayli> people tend to put thier own views of safety on others.. thus causing problems
[21:57] <ayli> good point simi
[21:57] <raven^Ron> raven: I think in some ways the emphasis has moved beyond common sense levels and into the area of using safety as a way to cut off some people from BDSM as being unsafe..usually those who enjoy edge play...
[21:58] <{sonja}JP> i think that causes semantic problems.......
[21:58] <{sonja}JP> how do you "cut someone off from BDSM"?
[21:58] <simi> We get called insane and unsafe a lot. And I know people who make us seem like a nickolodeon tv show
[21:58] <raven^Ron> Ron: There was that one post from that girl who said she got into it from reading ssc 10 years ago but now she has been able to move beyond what most people consider to be SSC..but SSC was the place where she could start and explain it to her husband and not freak him out..
[21:58] <raven^Ron> raven: good point Ron
[21:59] <{sonja}JP> that is what i was just thinking of
[21:59] <raven^Ron> I agree sonja to be totally honest...
[21:59] <raven^Ron> agreed ayli
[21:59] <raven^Ron> I agree simi...
[21:59] <{sonja}JP> that - and it doesnt hurt to "scare" the newbies into being overly cautious for a while
[22:00] <Rorsch> Well, the only thing I like about the SSC concept is to try to emphisis to those outside to BDSM that we are not lunitacs
[22:00] <raven^Ron> Ron: good point sonja..better to be overly cautious at first than to rush right in thinking "OH I can use a single tail, I've read a few FAQ's on it!"
[22:00] <raven^Ron> I agree with that Ror
[22:00] <Rorsch> Ohh ... I speak English good
[22:00] <{sonja}JP> exactly.....
[22:00] <Rorsch> Wow ... I'm impressed anyone understood what I just typed
[22:01] <raven^Ron> Would you say that generally speaking, having the knowledge of the risks associated with some types of play is a good thing?
[22:01] <{sonja}JP> do you KNOW how much Master has read and is still reading about fisting???? - its almost making me nutty at this point
[22:01] <raven^Ron> LOL Ror..it wasn't that hard to understand what you wrote
[22:01] <raven^Ron> Ron: yes
[22:01] * ayli giggles
[22:01] <ayli> it made sense Ror..
[22:01] <raven^Ron> ohhh sonja..I love fisting :)
[22:01] <ayli> yes raven..
[22:01] <Rorsch> Yes, I'm very big on being aware of the risks
[22:01] <raven^Ron> Ron: I've never read anything about fisting..but I had a good teacher...
[22:02] <{sonja}JP> He wants to make sure He knows everything He can before He even starts experimenting.....
[22:02] <raven^Ron> raven giggles..
[22:02] <raven^Ron> raven blushes too because..well...nevermind
[22:02] <Soulhuntr> funny. I just put lots of lube on and went slow.
[22:02] <raven^Ron> makes sense sonja..
[22:02] <raven^Ron> Is there such a thing as taking safety too far?
[22:02] <{sonja}JP> neither of us know anything........at first i was grateful that He was doing such research...
[22:02] <Rorsch> Hmmm ... I never even heard of SSC when I tried fisting
[22:02] <raven^Ron> Ron: Yes I think there is
[22:03] <raven^Ron> Ron: When you are so wrapped up in safety that you kill the moment..you kill the dynamics of the scene..if you do that, what are you doing it for?
[22:03] <ayli> uhmmm.. technical knowledge? *kidding*
[22:03] <Rorsch> I went to the same school as Ken when I learned about fisting <chuckle>
[22:03] <{sonja}JP> back to my motto.......PREPARATION beforehand......so you can relax during......
[22:03] <raven^Ron> Ken, that's basically what the first person who fisted me did...and honestly, that's about all there is to it..lots of lube, go slow...and maybe trim your nails so as not to scratch..unless scratching is something you want of course..
[22:04] <Rorsch> I read a lot about fisting AFTER I did it
[22:04] <raven^Ron> raven: I think it is possible to over prepare for something..thus increasing the anxiety level rather than decreasing it...
[22:04] <raven^Ron> yeah so did I Ror.. LOLOL
[22:05] * {sonja}JP is still "scared" - Master's hands are LITERLLY half again the size of mine - and i am NOT a little girl
[22:05] <raven^Ron> Ron: must of what you read was porno raven..anyway.........
[22:05] <{sonja}JP> possibly raven
[22:05] <ayli> definatly raven!
[22:05] <raven^Ron> raven giggles..what's wrong with porno
[22:05] <{sonja}JP> besides the fact that most of it is poorly done?
[22:05] <{sonja}JP> lol
[22:05] <raven^Ron> I think one can talk things over too much and end up with the opposite effect than wht they wanted..increased fear instead of allaying it..
[22:05] *** simi has joined #leather_and_roses
[22:06] * simi sits on Ror's fist. Now maybe that'll keep me put!
[22:06] <raven^Ron> Ron: or taking all the excitement out of it.like if you say "I'll be breaking in your door at 9:58 to rape you" it kind of takes the fun out of a consensual rape scene..
[22:06] <raven^Ron> LOLOL simi..wb :)
[22:06] <simi> ty raven :)
[22:06] * ayli laughs
[22:06] <Rorsch> hard to type this way
[22:06] <ayli> wb simi :)
[22:06] <raven^Ron> Ron: LOL simi..did you lube up first simi, or do you just like taking it hard?
[22:06] <Rorsch> Wb Mine
[22:06] <simi> HARD!
[22:06] <raven^Ron> raven laughs..oh Ron that was bad..
[22:06] <Soulhuntr> Now you wan to talk scary, I have some porn with some truley MASSIVE men having anal sex with a girl who is like 5 foot 1. The thing must be up in her lungs.
[22:06] <raven^Ron> Ron: LOLOLOL (Ror and simi)
[22:06] <raven^Ron> raven giggles
[22:06] <{sonja}JP> oh i agree....i was referring to physical preparation.....for example...i would have about 3 times as much lube on hand as i think would be needed.........so there was no "stopping in the middle"
[22:06] <Blood|ord> *laughs*
[22:07] <raven^Ron> OUCH Ken.. :(
[22:07] <raven^Ron> Ron: Oh God Ken..OUCH..was that a movie Ken?
[22:08] <ayli> yikkes
[22:08] <raven^Ron> Where do we get our ideas of what is safe and what is not?
[22:08] <Soulhuntr> Yeah, its a movie :)
[22:08] <raven^Ron> Ron: sonja, with that wetness scale that you did, how much lube could you possibly need??
[22:08] <raven^Ron> raven's jaw drops open and she thwaps Ron's ear
[22:08] <{sonja}JP> lol - i have wondered about that......
[22:08] <simi> Hmmmm
[22:08] <{sonja}JP> ummmmm - sometimes - never mind
[22:08] <raven^Ron> raven laughs
[22:08] * ayli just blushs terribly and looks for something to climb Under
[22:09] <simi> LoL
[22:09] <raven^Ron> Ron: sometimes what?
[22:09] * {sonja}JP has never needed lube for anything else......up to and including anal sex.....but thinks.......maybe there.....
[22:09] <{sonja}JP> what they said
[22:10] <raven^Ron> Ron: I get my ideas of what is safe is my own intuition, and what I've learned over the years about medical type stuff through training..that's about it
[22:11] <raven^Ron> ok..is there any other item anyone wants to touch upon when it comes to safety?
[22:11] * {sonja}JP gets her idea of safe from everywhere......take all info and then process it thru my own brain - then Master's :)
(END OF DISCUSSION)
[21:08] <raven{Az}> You must be of legal age to participate, if you are not, please leave. Legal age being 18 or 21 depending on your location, if you are thought to be younger, you will be asked your age. If you are found to be younger, you will be kick/banned.
[21:08] <raven{Az}> No trolling will be tolerated, this is not a singles night, it is a discussion night Trolling is the advertising of yourself, wants/needs/desires, and/or personal ads. If you troll, you will be kick/banned.
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[21:08] <raven{Az}> Please try to stay on topic and discuss one thread at a time. If the discussion gets overly fast (or overly emotional, or someone requests a break), I will call a break. This is so everyone can take a few moments to relax, and get their thoughts in order before continuing.
[21:08] <raven{Az}> If it erodes into a semantics argument, and those who are disagreeing can not agree to disagree, I will close the discussion for the night. We are here to discuss and learn from one anther, not fight with one another.
[21:09] <raven{Az}> Please be polite when speaking and do not flame anyone. Flaming is insulting the person who states an idea. You can disagree with an idea, but do not attack the person making the idea. Flamers, will be kicked
[21:09] <raven{Az}> All statements are publishable on the web site,. I will change nicks if it is requested via email to webmaster@leathernroses.com. If I receive no requests, logs will be published in full on the web site and the lack of a request will be taken as consent to publish your statements.
[21:09] <raven{Az}> I hope you enjoy tonight's discussion, the topic is Safety In BDSM Play
[21:09] <raven{Az}> Let's start with this..what general safety things do you keep in mind for any type of play?
[21:10] <ayli> ask what medical conditions, if any exsist, for both parties
[21:10] <nessa{JW}> a fire extinguisher
[21:10] * {sonja}JP thinks preparation
[21:10] <{sonja}JP> such as a fire ext. for any sort of fire play........first aid kit for many (including knife play, etc)
[21:11] <raven{Az}> ok...what specific safety measures are taken in bondage?
[21:13] <ayli> well.. watch to make sure the person tied up isn't losing circulation .. some people keep a knife/something like that close by so they can cut the ropes if need be..
[21:13] <raven{Az}> how can you tell if they are losing circulation?
[21:13] <{sonja}JP> extremities turn blue
[21:14] <Blood|ord> they turn blue and gets cold
[21:14] * raven{Az} nods..
[21:14] <raven{Az}> One also has to learn some anatomy so that ropes are not bound too tighlty over major nerves..thus possibly causing damage to that nerve..
[21:16] <raven{Az}> what about areas of the body that are OK to hit with just about anything?
[21:16] <ayli> butt.. thighs.. uhmm
[21:16] <{sonja}JP> backs of the thighs???
[21:16] <simi> Do you mean knowing which ones?
[21:16] <Blood|ord> make sure that you don´t hit/cut a person over a major vein
[21:18] <raven{Az}> yes simi..
[21:18] <simi> Ah okay
[21:18] <raven{Az}> backs of thighs are ok..
[21:18] <simi> any large areas of muscle
[21:18] <simi> or fatty tissue
[21:18] <raven{Az}> basically, I think itis considered OK to strike a fleshy part of the body heavier than areas that the bone is more prominent (spine for example)
[21:19] <raven{Az}> yes simi :)
[21:19] <raven{Az}> what about areas like shoulders, breasts, abdomens and calves?
[21:19] <Rorsch> It does vary some depending on the individual ...
[21:19] <ayli> you can hit there pretty much with anything can't you?
[21:19] <ayli> not abdomen
[21:19] <Rorsch> Depending on medical and health issues
[21:20] <simi> well those are all areas that are open target practice as far as we're concerned
[21:20] <raven{Az}> yesit does Ror
[21:20] <raven{Az}> they are as far as I am concerned as well simi..
[21:20] <Rorsch> Which is why I shy away from "play" with people I don't know very well
[21:20] <simi> body type does figure quite a bit into the equation Chief, I'd agree
[21:20] <raven{Az}> but, that gets into what exactly is safe and who decides such..which we will touch upon in a few..I just wanted to get the basic info out first :)
[21:21] <raven{Az}> Makes sense to me Ror..
[21:21] <Rorsch> Well, there's a list of reasons, but I would be digressing
[21:21] <raven{Az}> question..the abdomen...is it something to strike with a more solid object (say a wooden paddle or thick cane) or is it an area that should be utilized more lightly..and if so..why?
[21:21] <raven{Az}> we'll get there Ror :)
[21:22] <ayli> I would think it would be an .. more carefull area
[21:22] <Rorsch> Some people's abs are very sensitive
[21:22] <Rorsch> Then you have people who have "six-pack abs"
[21:23] <raven{Az}> agreed Ror.. :)
[21:24] <raven{Az}> when it comes to striking a sub, are there any generalized safety measures that one should at least keep in mind ?
[21:25] <ayli> watch thier reaction?
[21:25] <raven{Az}> agreed ayli..
[21:25] <raven{Az}> how about discussing before play commences what each considers to be acceptable and unacceptable?
[21:26] <ayli> yep
[21:26] <raven{Az}> (in the case of a play partner thing..or the very beginning of a relationship)
[21:26] <Blood|ord> yepp
[21:26] <Rorsch> Agreed
[21:26] <Blood|ord> there must be a strong trust between the partners
[21:26] <raven{Az}> do you think it is neccessary for those participating to know CPR and the signs of shock?
[21:26] <raven{Az}> agreed Blood|ord
[21:27] <Blood|ord> that depends on what play they are doing
[21:27] <ayli> I think they should at least have a basic knowledge of first aid yea
[21:27] <raven{Az}> I agree ayli..
[21:28] <raven{Az}> Blood|ord, I think that if sub space is part of the desired outcome of a scene (any scene) then basic knowledge of shock should be known by the dominant..and cpr, personally, I think it's a good thing for anyone to know whether they are in bdsm or not..
[21:28] <Blood|ord> i agree raven{Az}
[21:28] <raven{Az}> what about knowing how to use the implements correctly? Like, how to strike with a cane so as not to cause undesired damage?
[21:29] <Blood|ord> very importan. needs to know how hard you can strike a partner with diiferents implents with out causing serius damage with them
[21:29] <Rorsch> Seems like a given to me
[21:29] <ayli> well.. I would thinking knowing the effect anything you do would be importaint.. such as silk scarves.. alot of people start out using them.. the problem being that they tighten up considerably with the subs movement.. if you wern't aware of that, and were not paying attention it could easily cause damage
[21:30] <ayli> yes Rorsch.. but there are some things that people don't consider.. dangerious.. that could easily turn out to be so..
[21:30] <raven{Az}> true Ror..but unfortunately that isn't always a given..
[21:30] <Rorsch> I know ... common sense isn't as common as the idea implies
[21:31] <raven{Az}> ok..seems like we've covered the large general area of safety issues...unless anyone has anything else to add, I will bring it into a more controversial discussion?
[21:31] <raven{Az}> true again Ror.. :)
[21:31] * ayli giggles.. it's almost damned uncommon
[21:31] <raven{Az}> LOL agreed gf!
[21:31] <Rorsch> Indeed, ayli ... scares me sometimes
[21:31] <ayli> it should..
[21:31] <raven{Az}> I wish common sense were more common because I think there'd be alot less problems in the world..
[21:32] <{sonja}JP> and a lot less idiots?
[21:32] <raven{Az}> agreed sonja!
[21:32] <raven{Az}> OK then..since we have no other generalized areas tossed out..let's get into nitty gritty stuff...what exactly is safe?
[21:32] <{sonja}JP> that varies from person to person
[21:33] <raven{Az}> yes it does sonja...so the only way to answer that question is from personal viewpoint..
[21:33] <raven{Az}> maybe I should reword it..what does safe mean to you?
[21:33] <{sonja}JP> not playing with someone i dont literally trust with my life
[21:34] <{sonja}JP> within that context...........anything
[21:34] <Rorsch> Safe to me would be in a situation I'm relatively in control of
[21:34] <raven{Az}> for me, it is doing things that I consider to have acceptable risks....but for me, if the risks outwiegh any possible benefit, then the activity is deemed unsafe for me..
[21:34] <ayli> gods.. thats hard
[21:35] *** raven{Az} is now known as raven^Ron
[21:35] <raven^Ron> Ron: Hello all <smile>
[21:35] <Rorsch> Heya Ron
[21:36] * Amax nods to Ron
[21:36] <{sonja}JP> hi Ron
[21:36] <raven^Ron> Ron: it's safe as long as I'm not bleeding <chuckle>
[21:36] <ayli> I guess it's safe as long as I trust the person in control..
[21:36] <raven^Ron> raven giggles..ahhhh so it's ok if I bleed then??
[21:36] <raven^Ron> raven winks at Ron
[21:36] <raven^Ron> Ron: Only a little bit love..<chuckle>
[21:37] <raven^Ron> raven cracks her knuckles and puts on her little secretary suit...here we go..
[21:37] <Ror> damn
[21:37] <raven^Ron> raven: In BDSM, is safety a concern with the kinds of play we engage in? Or should all caution be thrown to the winds?
[21:37] <{sonja}JP> oooooohhh raven is cute in that outfit :)
[21:38] <{sonja}JP> there goes that common sense need again
[21:38] <raven^Ron> raven: thanks sonja! LOL and who knows, maybe Ron the boss will spank his "naughty secretary" <giggle>
[21:38] <raven^Ron> Ron: you bet your ass on that..anyway...
[21:38] <ayli> well.. yes.. safety should always be considered.. but.. it's always going to be a personal limit
[21:38] <raven^Ron> ok, common sense affects things how sonja?
[21:38] <{sonja}JP> caution should never be thrown to the wind.......there is usually a reason for CAUTION
[21:38] <raven^Ron> I agree ayli
[21:38] <ayli> (personal to the particular relationship)
[21:38] <raven^Ron> Ron: Yes, safety is always a concern for me
[21:38] <simi> I think that's an individual decision, and one that can't be determined for a group as a whole
[21:38] <ayli> you naughty raven??
[21:38] <raven^Ron> technically true simi...
[21:39] * ayli looks shocked ;)
[21:39] <simi> What to you may seem like throwing caution to the wind may indeed be rather thoughtful execution on our part
[21:39] <raven^Ron> raven: hell no. I'm a good girl
[21:39] <{sonja}JP> raven is always naughty
[21:39] <raven^Ron> Ron: yes raven is naughty...
[21:39] <{sonja}JP> lol
[21:39] <raven^Ron> true simi...
[21:39] * {sonja}JP was referring to things like blade play without "bandaids" nearby
[21:40] <raven^Ron> raven: I do however think there is a difference between throwing caution to the wind and engaging in activities that may seem to be without caution..
[21:40] <{sonja}JP> breath play wihtout the one doing the restriction knowing CPR
[21:40] <simi> <has no bandaids, and get blood drawn often... am I careless?
[21:40] <raven^Ron> raven: throwing caution to the winds would possibly contain such things as not watching where you are actually hitting..being careless..
[21:40] * {sonja}JP thinks so
[21:40] <raven^Ron> no simi..
[21:40] <simi> Fair enough sonja, you're entitled to your opinion :)
[21:41] <simi> the kind of cutting we do, a band-aid ain't gonna do anything but wash off in the flood
[21:41] <{sonja}JP> r you doing it cause the "risk" is exciting to you or because you forgot to buy them?
[21:41] <raven^Ron> I seriously doubt simi that you would be careless about such a thing as cutting..or more accurately that Ror would be
[21:41] <simi> Because a band-aid is useless, sonja
[21:41] <{sonja}JP> well i said "bandaids" meaning guaze......or something useful...
[21:41] <{sonja}JP> gauze even
[21:42] <{sonja}JP> bandages
[21:42] <raven^Ron> makes sense to me..with a deep cut, a band aid is about as useful as sticking your thumb in a mud damn to stop leaks..
[21:42] <{sonja}JP> whatever would be necessary
[21:42] <{sonja}JP> TOWELS????
[21:42] <simi> we do have towels, clean shirts.... but they aren't piled next to the chair
[21:42] <simi> anything can serve as a tourniquet
[21:43] <ayli> taking proper precautions so that you don't loose to much blood, and perhaps even making sure that the knowledge is there to take care of it should something unforseen happen, as well as knowing where the major veins and artieries are so that you Don't cut something stupid?
[21:43] <raven^Ron> Ron: Isn't a tourniquet a last minute life saving device done if someone cuts a major artery or vein?
[21:43] <{sonja}JP> well, i will admit i am a preparation freak.......my fav motto is "i would rather have it and not use it than not have it"
[21:43] <simi> Yup, and frankly, unless someone's a free bleeder, the wound will clot
[21:43] <{sonja}JP> i do the same with toys, etc
[21:44] <simi> unless you've jabbed an artery or something
[21:45] <raven^Ron> simi, I cant say whether or not,your not having bandaids directly on hand is careless since I certainly didn't have them sitting on the nightstand when Ron took a razor to me...granted he didn't cut very deeply..but he could have by mistake..however, the items needed are not all that far away should something go wrong...
[21:45] <{sonja}JP> so, in other words, you are aware of the dangers - and you both know what to do in case of accident - and are capable of DOing it......right?
[21:45] <{sonja}JP> asking simi
[21:45] <raven^Ron> yes simi..I can agree with that..it sounds to me like you handle cutting in a manner that is safe in your eyes..and it sure doesn't sound to me like you're being unsafe about it either..
[21:46] <simi> Besides, blood running down pale white flesh is really pretty :)
[21:46] <raven^Ron> yes it is simi :)))
[21:46] <simi> I know some basics about medicine, though I'm no Marcus Welby.
[21:47] <simi> However, I can't say that, put to the test, I'd have the faculties to use my knowledge anyhow
[21:47] <Rorsch> I've had a few courses in first aid and CPR training ... thankfully haven't had an occasion to use them
[21:47] <raven^Ron> However, I was thinking more along the lines of someone using an implement such as a single tail, without any experience at all...or doing a deep cutting without knowing first aid, or really having no idea of how "deep" is ok enough so as not to cut an artery or something...that kind of carelessness..
[21:48] <simi> Ah, well... I can't imagine what would prompt a person to do such a thing.
[21:48] <{sonja}JP> thank you raven.......that is what i was referring to as well....
[21:48] <Rorsch> Well, that's why I've always been so big on the "mentor" concept
[21:48] <raven^Ron> Ron: I've had 15 courses of first aid and cpr type things..every year basically
[21:48] <Rorsch> I prefer to learn the initial basics from someone who knows
[21:48] <raven^Ron> raven: makes sense to me Ror..
[21:49] <simi> He's really responsible that way. I guess I can't fathom someone choosing a partner who wasn't
[21:49] <Rorsch> I am grateful I had a few very good mentors
[21:49] <{sonja}JP> to me......choosing such a partner would be "throwing caution to the wind"
[21:50] <simi> Definitely agreed, sonja
[21:50] <{sonja}JP> the non-responsible type, i mean
[21:50] <raven^Ron> Ron: I would want to get someone to show me how to do things like cutting before I tried anything more than superficial cuts or scratches..
[21:50] <Blood|ord> agreed
[21:50] <raven^Ron> I agree there sonja..
[21:50] <raven^Ron> So how do you know if a person has the experience that they say they do?
[21:50] <simi> Watching
[21:50] <raven^Ron> Ron: Watch them play with someone else before you let them play with you
[21:51] <raven^Ron> Ron: ^5 simi
[21:51] <raven^Ron> raven giggles..gmta
[21:51] <Rorsch> Cutting was actually one of those I learned from reading and experimentation. Didn't have mentor on that one
[21:51] <{sonja}JP> there ya go
[21:51] <simi> ^5 Ron :)
[21:51] <Blood|ord> learn the person well before going into play with that person
[21:51] <Rorsch> I started out very light ... scratching only
[21:51] <raven^Ron> experimenting in what way Ror? I have heard people say they've used peaches and oranges and such to practice cutting on..getting a feel for pressure and such..
[21:51] <raven^Ron> makes sense..
[21:51] <raven^Ron> I agree Blood|ord
[21:52] <simi> I've watched Flagg punch.. I wanted to experience it. Who better to experience it with. And as an additional benefit, Ror learned how to do it also. It was a win-win situation
[21:52] <raven^Ron> Ron: I still think I'd want a mentor to show me more involved cutting techniques, I'd hate to cut off raven's nipple...besides, I don't think she'd forgive me for that one..and I'd miss it too <chuckle>
[21:52] <raven^Ron> raven giggles..
[21:52] <Blood|ord> the only way to really know if the person knows it is by knowing the person. you can´t start by scratching because if the person don´t know how deep to cut then they will not know how to just scrach
[21:52] <raven^Ron> makes sense to me simi..but what about those who don't have the option of watching someone play with another?
[21:53] <{sonja}JP> Master wouldnt be able to forgive HIMself if He cut off a nipple.......lol
[21:53] <raven^Ron> LOLOL sonja
[21:53] <simi> I don't know, raven.... that's not my reality
[21:53] <raven^Ron> I undrstand simi
[21:53] <Rorsch> Well, actually it was mostly on myself and Mine. I got to know the knife and did only very light things with it for a long time
[21:53] <simi> I'm trying to come up with an answer for you though
[21:53] <raven^Ron> Ron: If you don't have the option to watch a prospective play partner play with someone else..then you might want to have someone you trust to be there and watch while he/she plays with you
[21:54] <simi> then he traded the knife for scalpels and straight razors... and it's been hell ever since <g>
[21:54] <{sonja}JP> that kinda sounds like fun :)
[21:54] <raven^Ron> I can see how that would work Ror..you'd gain experience with the knife, and the knowledge of how to apply it to achieve the effect you want..
[21:54] <raven^Ron> LOLOL simi
[21:54] <raven^Ron> Ron: LOL simi
[21:54] <Rorsch> <chuckle>
[21:54] <simi> You can tell I'm just devastated by this turn of events
[21:54] <raven^Ron> raven: I get the feeling that is a hell you enjoy simi <giggle>
[21:54] * simi cracks up
[21:54] <raven^Ron> Oh yeah simi..totally crushed..
[21:54] <raven^Ron> raven giggles
[21:54] <Rorsch> Exactly, Raven/Ron
[21:54] <simi> Oh yes raven <holding hand to forehead?
[21:55] <Blood|ord> if you don´t know if the person knows how to cut than take that persons hand and let the person hold the knife and then cutting you with the help of your own hand so the other person can feel how hard to cut for a sort of level damage
[21:55] <raven^Ron> raven whispers to simi..don't forget to faint now..
[21:55] <simi> LMAO
[21:55] * simi does her Camille imitation
[21:55] <raven^Ron> LOL simi
[21:55] <raven^Ron> Ron: you poor girl simi
[21:55] <raven^Ron> makes sense to me Blood|ord...but I'm not sure that is always a practical option, though it could work :)
[21:55] * ayli fans simi
[21:56] <simi> Start on a tough spot... the ass is pretty hard to maim
[21:56] <simi> I wouldn't start on a breast
[21:56] * {sonja}JP gets the smelling salts
[21:56] <raven^Ron> ok..back on topic..do you think there is too much emphasis put on safety in the lifestyle?
[21:56] <{sonja}JP> no
[21:56] <Rorsch> Safety is good. I'm not big on mantra, however
[21:57] <ayli> in some ways.. yes
[21:57] <raven^Ron> Ron: no I don't think there is..let's be real, this can be dangerous, even putting someone into subspace could cause shock and in a worst case scenario, they could die from that shock..
[21:57] <Blood|ord> raven^Ron well then you have at least instructed the person so that person have some basic knowledge of how hard he can cut. and if you find that person nervous while you are doing it i can bet that, that person don´t have a clue about how to cut
[21:57] <{sonja}JP> .......there are too many people out there just learning........i think that it is very good that they are bombarded with SAFETY!!!!!!....then once they get comfortable......they will make their own way
[21:57] <simi> I think there are methodologies which in and of itself are not guarantees of safety. If anything annoys me, it's the idea that if you just do "A,B and C" then you'll be "safe"
[21:57] <ayli> people tend to put thier own views of safety on others.. thus causing problems
[21:57] <ayli> good point simi
[21:57] <raven^Ron> raven: I think in some ways the emphasis has moved beyond common sense levels and into the area of using safety as a way to cut off some people from BDSM as being unsafe..usually those who enjoy edge play...
[21:58] <{sonja}JP> i think that causes semantic problems.......
[21:58] <{sonja}JP> how do you "cut someone off from BDSM"?
[21:58] <simi> We get called insane and unsafe a lot. And I know people who make us seem like a nickolodeon tv show
[21:58] <raven^Ron> Ron: There was that one post from that girl who said she got into it from reading ssc 10 years ago but now she has been able to move beyond what most people consider to be SSC..but SSC was the place where she could start and explain it to her husband and not freak him out..
[21:58] <raven^Ron> raven: good point Ron
[21:59] <{sonja}JP> that is what i was just thinking of
[21:59] <raven^Ron> I agree sonja to be totally honest...
[21:59] <raven^Ron> agreed ayli
[21:59] <raven^Ron> I agree simi...
[21:59] <{sonja}JP> that - and it doesnt hurt to "scare" the newbies into being overly cautious for a while
[22:00] <Rorsch> Well, the only thing I like about the SSC concept is to try to emphisis to those outside to BDSM that we are not lunitacs
[22:00] <raven^Ron> Ron: good point sonja..better to be overly cautious at first than to rush right in thinking "OH I can use a single tail, I've read a few FAQ's on it!"
[22:00] <raven^Ron> I agree with that Ror
[22:00] <Rorsch> Ohh ... I speak English good
[22:00] <{sonja}JP> exactly.....
[22:00] <Rorsch> Wow ... I'm impressed anyone understood what I just typed
[22:01] <raven^Ron> Would you say that generally speaking, having the knowledge of the risks associated with some types of play is a good thing?
[22:01] <{sonja}JP> do you KNOW how much Master has read and is still reading about fisting???? - its almost making me nutty at this point
[22:01] <raven^Ron> LOL Ror..it wasn't that hard to understand what you wrote
[22:01] <raven^Ron> Ron: yes
[22:01] * ayli giggles
[22:01] <ayli> it made sense Ror..
[22:01] <raven^Ron> ohhh sonja..I love fisting :)
[22:01] <ayli> yes raven..
[22:01] <Rorsch> Yes, I'm very big on being aware of the risks
[22:01] <raven^Ron> Ron: I've never read anything about fisting..but I had a good teacher...
[22:02] <{sonja}JP> He wants to make sure He knows everything He can before He even starts experimenting.....
[22:02] <raven^Ron> raven giggles..
[22:02] <raven^Ron> raven blushes too because..well...nevermind
[22:02] <Soulhuntr> funny. I just put lots of lube on and went slow.
[22:02] <raven^Ron> makes sense sonja..
[22:02] <raven^Ron> Is there such a thing as taking safety too far?
[22:02] <{sonja}JP> neither of us know anything........at first i was grateful that He was doing such research...
[22:02] <Rorsch> Hmmm ... I never even heard of SSC when I tried fisting
[22:02] <raven^Ron> Ron: Yes I think there is
[22:03] <raven^Ron> Ron: When you are so wrapped up in safety that you kill the moment..you kill the dynamics of the scene..if you do that, what are you doing it for?
[22:03] <ayli> uhmmm.. technical knowledge? *kidding*
[22:03] <Rorsch> I went to the same school as Ken when I learned about fisting <chuckle>
[22:03] <{sonja}JP> back to my motto.......PREPARATION beforehand......so you can relax during......
[22:03] <raven^Ron> Ken, that's basically what the first person who fisted me did...and honestly, that's about all there is to it..lots of lube, go slow...and maybe trim your nails so as not to scratch..unless scratching is something you want of course..
[22:04] <Rorsch> I read a lot about fisting AFTER I did it
[22:04] <raven^Ron> raven: I think it is possible to over prepare for something..thus increasing the anxiety level rather than decreasing it...
[22:04] <raven^Ron> yeah so did I Ror.. LOLOL
[22:05] * {sonja}JP is still "scared" - Master's hands are LITERLLY half again the size of mine - and i am NOT a little girl
[22:05] <raven^Ron> Ron: must of what you read was porno raven..anyway.........
[22:05] <{sonja}JP> possibly raven
[22:05] <ayli> definatly raven!
[22:05] <raven^Ron> raven giggles..what's wrong with porno
[22:05] <{sonja}JP> besides the fact that most of it is poorly done?
[22:05] <{sonja}JP> lol
[22:05] <raven^Ron> I think one can talk things over too much and end up with the opposite effect than wht they wanted..increased fear instead of allaying it..
[22:05] *** simi has joined #leather_and_roses
[22:06] * simi sits on Ror's fist. Now maybe that'll keep me put!
[22:06] <raven^Ron> Ron: or taking all the excitement out of it.like if you say "I'll be breaking in your door at 9:58 to rape you" it kind of takes the fun out of a consensual rape scene..
[22:06] <raven^Ron> LOLOL simi..wb :)
[22:06] <simi> ty raven :)
[22:06] * ayli laughs
[22:06] <Rorsch> hard to type this way
[22:06] <ayli> wb simi :)
[22:06] <raven^Ron> Ron: LOL simi..did you lube up first simi, or do you just like taking it hard?
[22:06] <Rorsch> Wb Mine
[22:06] <simi> HARD!
[22:06] <raven^Ron> raven laughs..oh Ron that was bad..
[22:06] <Soulhuntr> Now you wan to talk scary, I have some porn with some truley MASSIVE men having anal sex with a girl who is like 5 foot 1. The thing must be up in her lungs.
[22:06] <raven^Ron> Ron: LOLOLOL (Ror and simi)
[22:06] <raven^Ron> raven giggles
[22:06] <{sonja}JP> oh i agree....i was referring to physical preparation.....for example...i would have about 3 times as much lube on hand as i think would be needed.........so there was no "stopping in the middle"
[22:06] <Blood|ord> *laughs*
[22:07] <raven^Ron> OUCH Ken.. :(
[22:07] <raven^Ron> Ron: Oh God Ken..OUCH..was that a movie Ken?
[22:08] <ayli> yikkes
[22:08] <raven^Ron> Where do we get our ideas of what is safe and what is not?
[22:08] <Soulhuntr> Yeah, its a movie :)
[22:08] <raven^Ron> Ron: sonja, with that wetness scale that you did, how much lube could you possibly need??
[22:08] <raven^Ron> raven's jaw drops open and she thwaps Ron's ear
[22:08] <{sonja}JP> lol - i have wondered about that......
[22:08] <simi> Hmmmm
[22:08] <{sonja}JP> ummmmm - sometimes - never mind
[22:08] <raven^Ron> raven laughs
[22:08] * ayli just blushs terribly and looks for something to climb Under
[22:09] <simi> LoL
[22:09] <raven^Ron> Ron: sometimes what?
[22:09] * {sonja}JP has never needed lube for anything else......up to and including anal sex.....but thinks.......maybe there.....
[22:09] <{sonja}JP> what they said
[22:10] <raven^Ron> Ron: I get my ideas of what is safe is my own intuition, and what I've learned over the years about medical type stuff through training..that's about it
[22:11] <raven^Ron> ok..is there any other item anyone wants to touch upon when it comes to safety?
[22:11] * {sonja}JP gets her idea of safe from everywhere......take all info and then process it thru my own brain - then Master's :)
(END OF DISCUSSION)
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