Presents:
BDSM Discussion 27
Polygamy
In BDSM
All Comments Posted Here With Permission Of The Participants
Session Start:
Sun Aug 06 20:50:53 2000
[20:50] *** Now talking in #leather_and_roses
[21:16] * raven^Ron says Hello and welcome to leather and roses' weekly discussions on BDSM the following rules apply..
[21:17] <raven^Ron> you must be of legal age to participate, if you are not, please leave. Legal age being 18 or 21 depending on your location
[21:17] <raven^Ron> no trolling will be tolerated, this is not a singles night, it is a discussion night
[21:17] <raven^Ron> be polite when speaking and do not flame anyone. You can disagree with an idea, but do not attack the person making the idea. Flamers, will be kicked
[21:17] <raven^Ron> all statements are publishable on the web site, with nicks changed (at your request, email webmaster@leathernroses.com if you don't want your nick used.) If an email request is not recieved, that will be taken as consent to post the log in it's entirety using the nicknames.
[21:17] <raven^Ron> Tonight's topic is Polygamy in BDSM...so to start us off..
[21:18] <raven^Ron> what is Polygamy?
[21:19] <ayli> okay.. polygamy.. uhmm.. more then two people in a relationship
[21:19] <raven^Ron> Ron: more than two people in an intimate relationship with all of them knowing about it..
[21:19] <dawn-s> can i ask ? by pologmy, do you mean sexual ? penertration?
[21:19] <dawn-s> ok :)
[21:19] <victoria`> incorporating more than one partner in play.. no necessarity the relationshi[
[21:20] <raven^Ron> How does one usually find polygamy in a d/s relationship?
[21:20] <victoria`> i think it depends on the ppl involved dawn-s .. bit like D/s.... its all individual.. some fuck.. some just do D/s
[21:20] <victoria`> can i say fuck?
[21:20] <raven^Ron> Ron: A dom wiht several slaves..or a dom with a main sub and more under her..
[21:20] <EZRiser> I would define it as a third in the relationship .. an equal partner
[21:20] <raven^Ron> yes you can victoria :)
[21:20] <victoria`> thank you :)
[21:21] <ayli> does it just have to be in threes?
[21:21] <raven^Ron> ROn: oh no..can be several, as long as the guy can keep it up..
[21:21] <Cougarwng> From what I've seen so far, it will usually take the part of a dom/me with more than one sub or slave.
[21:21] <raven^Ron> raven laughs...
[21:21] <EZRiser> no .. but it has to be more than two ..
[21:21] <dawn-s> im not sure if this applies to me as Master has said that at all play parties or meets i will wear underwear at all times,,,,,,,, and i have no interest in having relations with any body else,,,,
[21:21] <raven^Ron> Ron: True..can be one female and several males..or two and two..or any other numerical combination...
[21:21] <Cougarwng> though I've seen it the other way around, and in many other combinations depending on the people in question :)
[21:21] <victoria`> nooo.. Sir and i have 2 in training and 1 we;ve had for a while now
[21:22] <raven^Ron> it does not neccessarily have to include sex dawn..
[21:22] <raven^Ron> polygamy can be stretched to inclue any play with someone other than one's comitted partner...
[21:22] <victoria`> more is the question.. of how a Dom manages his time and engeries.. and how the subs manage theri insecurities
[21:22] <dawn-s> hmmmm raven^Ron, i know,,,,, i guess touching or even being spanked by another at Masters discresion,,,,,,,,,,,
[21:23] <raven^Ron> yes..I would include that in the definition dawn...because it is not monogamous..more than one partner..
[21:23] <raven^Ron> How does polygamy affect a d/s relationship?
[21:24] <dawn-s> i think it would then depend on the level of power the Dom has over His/Her sub/slave,,, wouldnt it?
[21:24] * Cougarwng nods
[21:24] <raven^Ron> yes that would certainly play a part..
[21:24] <raven^Ron> but would one sub be in control of the other to a certain extent?
[21:24] <victoria`> i think it enhances it..... it takes al ot to get past one poersonal insecurities of having other there... learning to trust and know your place is a hard one.. but .. its one that certainly has made me clamer and more sure of myslef
[21:24] <victoria`> i know where i belong
[21:24] <raven^Ron> Ron: No not neccessarily..though it can be one dom wiht two subs..
[21:24] <victoria`> generally yes raven^Ron
[21:25] <raven^Ron> you're right victoria, it takes a lot to get to such a point... :)
[21:25] <Cougarwng> Well put, victoria. I'm hoping my pets and I can reach that point together.
[21:25] <raven^Ron> but Ron, that is not taking into consideration the natural personalities of the subs..what if one is naturally more of a "leader" than the other?
[21:25] <victoria`> its encompassing the trust and knowledge that you are loved and respected that makes it easy to accept and come to enjoy
[21:25] <EZRiser> there will always be an alpha ..
[21:25] <raven^Ron> Ron: THen that would take place natrually, you wouldn't have to push it..people will find their level of comfort in a relationship...
[21:26] <raven^Ron> true victoria..
[21:26] <victoria`> i think there needs to be.. in any society there is apecking order
[21:26] <victoria`> d/s is no different
[21:26] <raven^Ron> this is true victoria...
[21:27] <Cougarwng> *nods* I'm curious as to how it would resolve between one who is more of a leader than the other, and one who is the primary....
[21:27] <victoria`> eg.. Sir doesnt *make love* to the ponys... BUT.. if he wanted to.. he would tell me and explain why.. he would have a good reason.. and i would trust that to be wise and true
[21:27] <dawn-s> perosnally i hav eno problem with Master playing with another sub, or having another Domm/e playing with me,,, but i know id have a problem if i thought it went as far as sexual,,,, , buts thats just me,,,,,,,
[21:27] <raven^Ron> Do you think there are some people using polygamy in bdsm to have more than one partner, but for the wrong reasons? like..they want a stable of "sex slaves"??
[21:27] <victoria`> absolutely !! raven^Ron !
[21:27] <dawn-s> raven^Ron yes!
[21:27] <raven^Ron> ponies victoria?
[21:27] <Cougarwng> I'd have to say yes.
[21:28] <raven^Ron> I can udnerstand that dawn
[21:28] <raven^Ron> Ron: true dawn, jealousy can rise up all too easily in a polygamous relationship..
[21:28] * Cougarwng nods... unfortunately true
[21:28] <victoria`> but they come unstick pretty quick.. they are never able to manage them for any longer than it takes for them to get jeolous.. with out controlling that all is lost
[21:28] <victoria`> unstuck
[21:28] <raven^Ron> true victoria..
[21:29] <raven^Ron> So how do you know the player (stable guy) from a person seeking a truly satisfying polygamous relationship?
[21:30] <raven^Ron> Ron: you can tell them because they would be more interested in making a relationship work than jumping in the sack..and if that takes motnhs or years, then it takes months or years..
[21:30] <victoria`> bdsm is a highly sexual arena.. there with always be sexual preditors.. but then again. the same could be said for any arena... its a matter of learning to know and trust
[21:30] <Cougarwng> The way they treat all people involved. If they treat them with respect and dignity, and obviously cherish them, it's definitely more likely the latter.
[21:30] <EZRiser> it would seem to become apparent in how satisfied and comfortable he keeps his subs .. that he is able to quell any feelings of jealousy
[21:30] <victoria`> exactly raven^Ron
[21:30] <raven^Ron> I agree Cougarwng.. :)
[21:31] <dawn-s> i dont think i can pput norm nilla values on my relationship,,, as they are so far outside what is the general accepted guidelins,,,, isnt it up to the core unit, be it whatever, to decide what they want and feel comfortable with?
[21:31] <ayli> how can one person effectivly keep up with 2 or 3.. or 4 for that matter?
[21:31] <raven^Ron> yes dawn, it is..
[21:31] <Cougarwng> Agreed, dawn :)
[21:31] <victoria`> its takes an extraordinary Dom/Domme to manage a stable.. or group... it takes individual care, love and respect, the time ascpect is huge.. its a full time committment
[21:32] <raven^Ron> Ron whispers to ayli: viagra?? no ummm...patience..making sure they give time to everyone involved seperately and together...??
[21:32] <raven^Ron> it sounds like it would be victoria..
[21:32] <victoria`> yes.. or have seniors help with the juniors
[21:32] <Cougarwng> agreed Rob ;-)
[21:32] <victoria`> delegation
[21:32] <ayli> yes.. I can see that working.. it just seems.. as though it would be overwelming
[21:32] <Cougarwng> Time certainly helps. If the other partners aren't also involved with others it helps for them to have outside interests.
[21:33] <dawn-s> smile*, the D/s and bdsm ppl are the most non judgemental ive met, they may not agree with anothers values, but they hardly ever judge,,,,
[21:33] <victoria`> i think its a lifestyle choice ayli .. i think it would be hard to manage it as a secondary focus
[21:33] <victoria`> hi AlstrBlck :)
[21:33] <Cougarwng> That way they feel the absence less.... But it is hard to manage.
[21:33] <Cougarwng> Agreed victoria...
[21:33] <raven^Ron> that makes sense Cougarwng...
[21:33] <raven^Ron> would you say it takes a special kind of person to be happy in a poly?
[21:34] <victoria`> its helpful if you can have them all as part of your everyday LIFE
[21:34] <Cougarwng> Depending on the relationship, yes, if one or more of the people involved isn't naturally poly.
[21:34] <Cougarwng> True victoria :)
[21:34] <EZRiser> I would say that it takes a person willing to accept and embrace that commitment .. knowing up front what obstacles could and would face them .. willing to work past them
[21:35] * Cougarwng chuckles and nods to EZRiser
[21:35] <raven^Ron> being part of the everyday life would make it easier I would think because then tehre would not be so much separation...the other people would be there all the time, even if you aren't actively doing something with that person..
[21:35] <ayli> yes.. I can see that would help raven..
[21:36] <raven^Ron> I lived a poly for a year and a half...as well as the last 6 months of my marriage was poly as well...
[21:36] <Cougarwng> *nods*
[21:36] <raven^Ron> jealousy was a problem in the marriage one..but not the d/s one..
[21:36] <raven^Ron> still...I can't say what made it work and what didn't..though the poly is not what broke the d/s relationship...but it did break the marriage..
[21:37] <Cougarwng> Different people, different ways of handling things?
[21:37] <raven^Ron> what happens if a poly comes into an existing relationship...should the newest member be the one to leave should the prior relationship start having trouble from the new addition?
[21:37] <EZRiser> honesty is crucial .. saying one thing .. then doing another .. in any degree .. can destroy a poly or monogomous relationship
[21:37] <raven^Ron> yes..that is basically it Cougarwng.. :)
[21:37] <raven^Ron> true EZ..
[21:37] <Cougarwng> Agreed EZ...
[21:38] <Cougarwng> Hmm... IMHO, unless the original was having problems before, and if the new problems are unresolvable yes.
[21:38] <raven^Ron> how does one handle conflict in a poly
[21:38] <raven^Ron> Ron: spank everyone??
[21:39] <EZRiser> I believe things like that .. discussing .. playing 'devils advocate' before embarking on such a journey .. should quell any such problems ..
[21:39] <ayli> comunication!
[21:39] <raven^Ron> raven rolls her eyes and thinks of spanking Ron
[21:39] * ayli laughs
[21:39] * ayli runs off and looks for the hairbrush
[21:39] <Cougarwng> Very true EZ.... My mate is naturally monogamous, very much so, and I'm... not... I mentally rehearsed some of the scenarios we'd probably run into
[21:40] <Cougarwng> and the questions he'd ask. When he was ready to ask them, I had answers ready :)
[21:40] <raven^Ron> I would say that frequent honest communication between everyone is neccessary..maybe "fmaily discussions">?
[21:40] <raven^Ron> Ron: seriously relationships, even basic vanilla one on one relationships are difficult, add to that the level of trust, honesty, communication neccessary in a d/s one..then add a third person into the mix..the divorce rate is 70% for marriages...I've never heard of a poly lasting more than a couple years.
[21:42] <Cougarwng> I have luckily... I know of some in the 4+ years region.... All of those were also BDSM, interestingly enough.
[21:42] <raven^Ron> I wonder if the bdsm makes it easier somehow because the level of communication is so much higher?
[21:42] <Cougarwng> I think so, that and the increased trust.
[21:43] <raven^Ron> I can see how the level of trust would be very helpful in a poly
[21:44] <raven^Ron> Ron: Yes I think that communication and trust in a bdsm would help a poly survive but all of the people have to be comfortable with a poly
[21:44] <raven^Ron> do all the people in a poly have to like each other?
[21:45] <EZRiser> absolutely !!!1
[21:45] <raven^Ron> I agree EZ...
[21:45] <Cougarwng> I would recommend it highly. Personally I would want all parties involved on at the least passing friendly terms.
[21:45] <EZRiser> yes .. and oral sex passin in the hall dont work ..
[21:45] <raven^Ron> Would the negotiation period for a poly d/s relationship take longer?
[21:45] <Cougarwng> The -very- least, if it's a live-in.
[21:46] <raven^Ron> LOL EZ
[21:46] * Cougarwng laughs...
[21:46] <Cougarwng> I believe so, if only because of all the new factors involved.
[21:46] * ayli laughs
[21:46] <raven^Ron> Ron laughs
[21:46] <ayli> how do you do oral sex while passing in the hall
[21:46] <raven^Ron> so why have a poly with all the extra stuff involved, the time, communication, trust...all that??
[21:47] <Cougarwng> Because it's worth it, if it works :)
[21:47] <EZRiser> if its fulfilling for all involved ... all .. why not try ..
[21:48] <raven^Ron> What makes it worth it Cougarwng?
[21:48] <raven^Ron> I agree EZ...
[21:48] <Cougarwng> The bond between the people involved for one, like having several close friends only much, much better *s*....
[21:49] * raven^Ron nods..I can understand that Cougarwng...it was nice when the poly I was in actually worked...
[21:49] * Cougarwng nods
[21:49] * ayli tilts her head
[21:49] <ayli> maybe the people involved need it?
[21:49] <victoria`> i asked the same one in the beginning.. i thought that perhaps he didnt find me satidfying.. that maybe... i couldnt give him everything he needed
[21:49] <raven^Ron> same as we need bdsm?
[21:49] <Cougarwng> The fact that many things are just more convenient with more people to shoulder the load (crises, etc.)
[21:50] <raven^Ron> that is very true Cougarwng... :)
[21:50] <EZRiser> share the load .. if you will Cougarwng?
[21:50] <ayli> yes raven
[21:50] <raven^Ron> Ron: are you in a poly now?
[21:50] <ayli> and what was your answer victoria?
[21:50] <aniles> I can definately see the appeal of a poly, although I have never been involved in one.
[21:50] <Cougarwng> Borderline. Things are at that intriguing undefined stage. *s*
[21:50] <raven^Ron> ye EZ...like, two women with kids makes more than one Mom...easier for housecleaning, it doesn't all fall to one person..if a problem arises, there are more people to handle it..specially if things get split up by who does what best..
[21:51] <Cougarwng> *nods*
[21:51] <victoria`> the thing was.. i couldnt.. there were thing is didnt enjoy.. im not a slave.. im a submissive by desire not by nature.. so finding those who could fulfil certains needs turned out the way to go.. i trust him.. i know he loeves me.. and i know they are not replacing me.. they are there to recive and give different pleasure.. each one trained in different areas so that they know theri defined roles
[21:51] <EZRiser> as long as one doesnt feel .. even remotely .. that they are getting the raw end of the stick .. yes .. again .. communication
[21:51] <victoria`> that was long .. sorry lol
[21:51] <raven^Ron> no problem victoria..
[21:52] <Cougarwng> Makes sense victoria...
[21:52] <raven^Ron> Ron: you communicated what you wanted to say very well victoria..
[21:52] * ayli giggles.. mom2
[21:52] <victoria`> and i do wish i had one here right now that could type lol
[21:52] <raven^Ron> I can see how that would be very helpful victoria...and how it could easily work...
[21:52] <raven^Ron> LOLOL victoria..
[21:52] * Cougarwng nods to EZRiser... from what I've seen that's one of the more common problems...
[21:52] <ayli> that does make allot of sense victoria
[21:52] * raven^Ron looks at ayli..mom number 2..yup..that fits you gf..
[21:52] * ayli giggles
[21:52] <victoria`> no one steps on toes.. we respect each other
[21:52] <raven^Ron> Ron: then what does that make me?? dad # 3?
[21:53] <victoria`> we know in our own ways that we are very very special to Him
[21:53] * raven^Ron laughs..no that makes you DOminant and dad #1..you know, the one supposedly in control...
[21:53] <ayli> your the only one here Ron.. you get to be Dad #1..
[21:53] <raven^Ron> ROn laughs
[21:53] * Cougarwng chuckles
[21:53] * ayli giggles.. and you should see the MM jump when someone yells RON
[21:53] <victoria`> hehe
[21:53] <raven^Ron> though...this is a non sexual arrangement..it could be considered poly..
[21:54] <EZRiser> own ways .. victoria .. dont at times you desire all the ways?
[21:54] <EZRiser> doesnt everyone .. desire the same .. looking for total devotion ..
[21:54] <victoria`> for me.. as his primary.. it is all ways..
[21:55] <Cougarwng> Agreed... I personally think that sex doesn't need to be involved for the other aspects to be present
[21:55] <victoria`> im not sure how i would manage being other than primary
[21:55] <ayli> some people may be happy with not having to be .. primary
[21:55] <victoria`> but then.. lol.. i never though i would be in this situation either
[21:55] <Cougarwng> That's one thing I'm curious about... how to balance the need of one partner for total devotion
[21:55] <EZRiser> some cant manage being anything less ... regardless of how much they are assured that they are
[21:55] <ayli> then they shouldn't try EZ..
[21:55] <victoria`> correct ayli .. the girls are happy.. they enjoy their roles... but on a whole.. they are very submissive by nature
[21:56] <ayli> you shouldn't try to fit into a role that doesn't suit you
[21:56] <raven^Ron> I can take being second provided I know I am important to the relationship ..the family..and the dominant...
[21:56] <Cougarwng> and the need of the other for multiple partners. How would one make sure that all partners knew the devotion and love was present for all?
[21:56] <victoria`> being a switch tends to allow me more scope in their training as well
[21:56] <raven^Ron> I agree ayli..if one feels they must be the ONLY..a poly is definitely not for them..
[21:56] <raven^Ron> time spent with each Cougarwng?
[21:56] <ayli> besides, wouldn't each person feel they had THIER place, no one else could fill it?
[21:56] <raven^Ron> makes sense to me ayli
[21:56] <raven^Ron> Ron: if one feels they need total singular comittment, it is best they not get into a poly..
[21:57] <ayli> such as.. "I am good at this" and "Your good at this" I don't see how there would be a problem then
[21:57] <Cougarwng> *nods*
[21:57] <raven^Ron> is it dangerous for a sub to say or think "I can change him so he wants just me?" and enter into a relationship with a man/woman who states clearly they prefer poly?
[21:57] <ayli> YES
[21:57] <raven^Ron> that's how my poly worked gf..
[21:57] <victoria`> total trust Cougarwng .. complete fail that when you are told you are loved and cherish.. you dont soubt it for amoment.. when he says he will do something he always does.. NEVER breaking a committment to time .. training etc
[21:57] <aniles> sounds as though they are setting themselves up for disaster.
[21:57] <Cougarwng> Yes. It hurts them both.
[21:58] <ayli> stupid.. and someone would be hurt
[21:58] * raven^Ron got the tasks she was best at...which was a lot more than the other woman involved...budget, office, you name it..
[21:58] <raven^Ron> I would agree Cougarwng...
[21:58] <Cougarwng> Each feels bad for hurting the other, and for hurting themselves as well.
[21:58] * Cougarwng is in a rather uncomfortable situation... naturally poly, with a naturally mono sub and a naturally poly potential other :/
[21:58] <raven^Ron> yes...being consistent would build the trust in the sub victoria..that would make it alot easier for the sub to be secure in a poly relationship...
[21:59] <Cougarwng> very good advice victoria.... My thanks :)
[21:59] <victoria`> there are rules... rules that if broken are punishable.. noone wants to be punished.... its expected that we behave a certain way... its a peer thing too.. we tend to remind each other of the rules and well.. shit.. we like each other:))
[21:59] <raven^Ron> so, what happens if a trust issue comes up, where something happens that the sub's trust is hurt a little? (which happens in any relationship from time to time)
[22:00] <raven^Ron> that works victoria :)))
[22:00] * raven^Ron hates punishment
[22:00] <Cougarwng> Indeed :)
[22:00] <ayli> by what though raven, one of the others, or the Dominant?
[22:00] <raven^Ron> lets start with the dominant...
[22:00] <ayli> I would think the situations would be handled differently
[22:00] <Cougarwng> It would depend almost completely on the situation. :/
[22:01] <Cougarwng> IMO/IME.
[22:01] <raven^Ron> Ron: I wanted to say this a minute ago..No one should get into any relationship thinking they can change the other person, yu have to love them for who they are now..not who you want them to be..
[22:01] <victoria`> well.. commonce sence kicks in for us raven^Ron .. its usually just a slip up.. a forgotten session.. forgetting to collect someone.. they can get a bit toey around pmt.. we tend to work it out oursleves.. i talk to them.. hgs .. kisses.. remind them they are loved.. its just like looking after someone you love.. you want them to be happy
[22:01] <raven^Ron> true...
[22:01] <victoria`> does that make sence
[22:01] <raven^Ron> yes..that makes a lot of sense..
[22:02] <Cougarwng> Indeed it does....
[22:02] <ayli> oh.. thats a nice way to handle things
[22:02] <victoria`> its like a family
[22:02] <raven^Ron> So it would be handled the same way it would be in a mono relationship, only extra people to lean on?
[22:02] <victoria`> its not overtly D/s// unless we are in the dungeon
[22:02] <victoria`> for sure raven^Ron
[22:02] <EZRiser> it is a family .. not in the traditional sense .. but it is a family
[22:02] <raven^Ron> d/s doesn't need to be overt..
[22:02] <Cougarwng> *nods* I believe so, raven^Ron
[22:03] <ayli> isn't any group of people who love each other family
[22:03] <victoria`> they have there say... they have the right to speak and to voice concerns.. each is given consideration.. no one has ever been told.. oh dont be silly
[22:03] <Cougarwng> Yes ayli :)
[22:03] <raven^Ron> I think so ayli...we are a family..
[22:03] * ayli smiles
[22:04] <raven^Ron> That is very important victoria...being able to talk and know you are listened to..
[22:04] * ayli nods nods nods
[22:04] <victoria`> the hardest part is introdusing someone new
[22:04] <victoria`> introducing
[22:04] <raven^Ron> wouldn't that require alot of talking with those already there?
[22:04] <Cougarwng> *nods* how so?
[22:05] <victoria`> who even though has been given a contract.. rules etc.. may still beleive she can change the worls lol
[22:05] <ayli> how would it be handled if no one Wanted a new person victoria? other then the Dominant of course
[22:05] <victoria`> world
[22:05] <raven^Ron> Ron: yes ayli, we are family..
[22:05] <victoria`> ok.. well.. there were 3 of us...
[22:05] * ayli giggles
[22:05] <victoria`> neither myslef.. or velvet liked anal
[22:05] <Cougarwng> *nods*
[22:05] * raven^Ron listens to victoria..
[22:05] <victoria`> we werer happy that Master got a new gurl for anl.. saved us sore bums lol
[22:06] <raven^Ron> LOLOL
[22:06] <raven^Ron> ok..under those circumstances it makes sense..
[22:06] <raven^Ron> Ron laughs
[22:06] <victoria`> we talked about it.. worked it all out....
[22:06] * ayli giggles..
[22:06] <victoria`> of course it does.. its logic
[22:06] <victoria`> why do something that i dont HAVE to do if someone else can do it lol
[22:06] <EZRiser> and sat easier after it was all over and done with .. <s>
[22:06] <victoria`> excatly
[22:06] <ayli> I was just asking.. well.. what if you hadn't liked the person he picked, or what if you just plain and simply didn't wish another person?
[22:07] <victoria`> so.. it comes down to each having defined roles
[22:07] <raven^Ron> however, lets take me for example..there are very few types of play/sex that I do not enjoy...and I'm willing to try almost anything once (no kids or dead people however)...so in that case, the reason for bringing another in is not so clear cut as I don't like anal...how does one handle bringing a new one in then?
[22:07] <victoria`> not steeping over the line.. not trying to vye for more attention
[22:07] <victoria`> etc
[22:07] <victoria`> ok.. there must be csomething raven^Ron .. that wouldnt shatter you not to have to do????
[22:08] <victoria`> if someone came along.. that you liked.. that your Master liked (as a person).. who was happy to give those pleasure.. would you not want to sahre?
[22:08] <victoria`> share
[22:08] <raven^Ron> yes..I would share my master, if I had one, with a person I liked..who liked me..I can do that...
[22:08] * raven^Ron tries to think of something she hates in a physical sense...ummmm...does laundry count?
[22:08] <victoria`> well thats more of what im talking about raven^Ron
[22:08] <EZRiser> all depends on how giving a person, or persons are ...
[22:09] <victoria`> actually it does lol
[22:09] <raven^Ron> honestly...I enjoy every type of play I've done..and every sexual thing I've done..(ok so I'm a slut)
[22:09] <victoria`> ok.. well move away from the sexual.. what about mind games
[22:09] <victoria`> having someone to practice bondage on
[22:09] <EZRiser> no place for them ..
[22:09] <raven^Ron> Ohhhh...yes..there are some I do not like..I do not like humiliation beyond very light stuff...my self esteem can't handle it...
[22:10] <victoria`> eg.. one girl is only ever tied up and masturbated.. she can never come by our hand :)
[22:10] <victoria`> would you enjoy that raven^Ron ?
[22:10] <raven^Ron> so hell yes..if my master liked that, I would have no problem with him finding someone he could do that with.. :)
[22:10] <raven^Ron> no..I'd be frustrated.. LOL
[22:11] <victoria`> there is no end to the differnt roles one canundertake in a poly relalitionship.. its endless
[22:11] <ayli> NO>. not a frustraited raven!
[22:11] <victoria`> excatly.. you wouldnt like it.. nor would i lol
[22:11] * ayli hides under Ron's couch
[22:11] <raven^Ron> Ron laughs at ayli
[22:11] <raven^Ron> gee thanks gf.. :)
[22:11] * victoria` grins at ayli .. hiding again
[22:11] * Cougarwng smiles
[22:11] <raven^Ron> you're right..and now i understand that...
[22:11] * raven^Ron cuts the legs off Ron's couch and drags ayli out of there before it falls..no hiding in LnR gf
[22:11] <ayli> only in pretend these days
[22:12] * ayli gets half squished
[22:12] <raven^Ron> except for the subbie den gf...
[22:12] <victoria`> i think it would be tough idf the Dominant didnt have total control over the whole group... iot would be chaos
[22:12] <raven^Ron> Ron: or in a really extended relationship..the dominants..
[22:12] <raven^Ron> you're right victoria..and I agree with that completely having lived through a poly where the dom??? couldn't control anything most of the time..
[22:12] <ayli> I'd think it'd take a very strong dominant to be in control ALL the time.. and is it possible?
[22:13] <raven^Ron> that depends on whether or not the subs involved see control as overt actions..or that silen firm knowledge of who is in charge..
[22:14] * victoria` nods
[22:14] <raven^Ron> I find that domination is more of a "feeling" than an action...if that makes any sense..
[22:15] * raven^Ron is thinking while typing..sooooo..this may not come out very well..
[22:15] *** Disconnected
[22:17] *** Topic is '(18+ BDSM) Discussion: Sun. 8/6/00 @ 10PM Eastern: Polygamy in BDSM (http://www.leatherNroses.com)'
[22:17] <ravnshad> and a sub, poly or not, will KNOW who is in charge even if the dom is not playing or what have you..even if he/she is not home
[22:17] * ravnshad returns...
[22:18] *** ravnshad is now known as raven^Ron
[22:18] <raven^Ron> ty ayli :)
[22:18] <victoria`> oh.. it ravenshad.. i didnt know that!
[22:18] <raven^Ron> ty victoria :)
[22:18] <Cougarwng> greetings raven^Ron :)
[22:18] <victoria`> hehe
[22:18] * raven^Ron gigles..yes...I am typing for two people victoria..myself and Ron..
[22:18] * ayli giggles
[22:18] <raven^Ron> we only have two internet ready puters..so on discussion nights we share a keyboard..sometimes it is ayli^Ron
[22:18] <victoria`> exo raven^Ron :))... i didnt realise it was you :)
[22:18] * raven^Ron giggles
[22:18] <raven^Ron> no problem victoria :)
[22:18] *** raven^Ron is now known as ravenshad
[22:18] <ravenshad> since Ron has wandered away..
[22:18] <victoria`> ok :))
[22:19] <ravenshad> what did I miss?
[22:19] <victoria`> hehe
[22:19] <victoria`> i dont have a lot longer either
[22:19] <ravenshad> I wanted to say thank you all for coming..I am enjoying this discussion quite a bit :)
[22:19] <victoria`> nothing we waited for youuuu!
[22:19] <ayli> I paused
[22:19] <ravenshad> shall we end it here then?
[22:19] <ravenshad> thanks gf :)
[22:19] * ayli giggles and hits the play button on raven
[22:19] * ravenshad giggles
[22:19] * victoria` nods.. i need to clean :((
[22:19] <ravenshad> eewwwww..cleaning..ACK
[22:19] * ayli giggles
[22:20] <ravenshad> well victoria..we have discussions every Sunday night..please feel welcome to come..
[22:20] * Cougarwng nods... I need to eat and take care of some work *s*
[22:20] <victoria`> i know.. NOT how its supposed to happen.. but even the best layed plans come apart sometimes lol
[22:20] <ayli> whats next week gf?
[22:21] <ravenshad> What is lifestyle BDSM is next week...:)
[22:21] <ravenshad> you are most welcome victoria..I appreciate you coming :)
[22:21] <victoria`> thank Cougarwng .. i need lots of sympathy.....got to get the wax off the floor.. i dont do knees well lol
[22:21] <ayli> Hello Marv
[22:21] <Cougarwng> Thanks for the discussion and the company both, I'll try to be here next week as well....
[22:21] <Marv> hi
[22:21] <ravenshad> Ron returns wide eyed from the laundry room...good thing we have extra hands here..
[22:21] <Cougarwng> Uh-oh.... Good luck then as well
[22:21] * victoria` waves tata lovelies :))))))
[22:21] <ravenshad> I would like that Cougarwng...it was nice meeting you :)
[22:21] <ravenshad> be well victoria :)
[22:21] <ayli> bye victoria` :) please come again
[22:21] <Cougarwng> Greetings Marv....
[22:21] <Marv> hi
[22:21] <ravenshad> Hello Marv
[22:21] <Marv> hi
[22:22] <Cougarwng> Nice meetings you all as well :) I'll see you all next week hopefully....
[22:22] <ravenshad> END FOR LOGGING PURPOSES
[20:50] *** Now talking in #leather_and_roses
[21:16] * raven^Ron says Hello and welcome to leather and roses' weekly discussions on BDSM the following rules apply..
[21:17] <raven^Ron> you must be of legal age to participate, if you are not, please leave. Legal age being 18 or 21 depending on your location
[21:17] <raven^Ron> no trolling will be tolerated, this is not a singles night, it is a discussion night
[21:17] <raven^Ron> be polite when speaking and do not flame anyone. You can disagree with an idea, but do not attack the person making the idea. Flamers, will be kicked
[21:17] <raven^Ron> all statements are publishable on the web site, with nicks changed (at your request, email webmaster@leathernroses.com if you don't want your nick used.) If an email request is not recieved, that will be taken as consent to post the log in it's entirety using the nicknames.
[21:17] <raven^Ron> Tonight's topic is Polygamy in BDSM...so to start us off..
[21:18] <raven^Ron> what is Polygamy?
[21:19] <ayli> okay.. polygamy.. uhmm.. more then two people in a relationship
[21:19] <raven^Ron> Ron: more than two people in an intimate relationship with all of them knowing about it..
[21:19] <dawn-s> can i ask ? by pologmy, do you mean sexual ? penertration?
[21:19] <dawn-s> ok :)
[21:19] <victoria`> incorporating more than one partner in play.. no necessarity the relationshi[
[21:20] <raven^Ron> How does one usually find polygamy in a d/s relationship?
[21:20] <victoria`> i think it depends on the ppl involved dawn-s .. bit like D/s.... its all individual.. some fuck.. some just do D/s
[21:20] <victoria`> can i say fuck?
[21:20] <raven^Ron> Ron: A dom wiht several slaves..or a dom with a main sub and more under her..
[21:20] <EZRiser> I would define it as a third in the relationship .. an equal partner
[21:20] <raven^Ron> yes you can victoria :)
[21:20] <victoria`> thank you :)
[21:21] <ayli> does it just have to be in threes?
[21:21] <raven^Ron> ROn: oh no..can be several, as long as the guy can keep it up..
[21:21] <Cougarwng> From what I've seen so far, it will usually take the part of a dom/me with more than one sub or slave.
[21:21] <raven^Ron> raven laughs...
[21:21] <EZRiser> no .. but it has to be more than two ..
[21:21] <dawn-s> im not sure if this applies to me as Master has said that at all play parties or meets i will wear underwear at all times,,,,,,,, and i have no interest in having relations with any body else,,,,
[21:21] <raven^Ron> Ron: True..can be one female and several males..or two and two..or any other numerical combination...
[21:21] <Cougarwng> though I've seen it the other way around, and in many other combinations depending on the people in question :)
[21:21] <victoria`> nooo.. Sir and i have 2 in training and 1 we;ve had for a while now
[21:22] <raven^Ron> it does not neccessarily have to include sex dawn..
[21:22] <raven^Ron> polygamy can be stretched to inclue any play with someone other than one's comitted partner...
[21:22] <victoria`> more is the question.. of how a Dom manages his time and engeries.. and how the subs manage theri insecurities
[21:22] <dawn-s> hmmmm raven^Ron, i know,,,,, i guess touching or even being spanked by another at Masters discresion,,,,,,,,,,,
[21:23] <raven^Ron> yes..I would include that in the definition dawn...because it is not monogamous..more than one partner..
[21:23] <raven^Ron> How does polygamy affect a d/s relationship?
[21:24] <dawn-s> i think it would then depend on the level of power the Dom has over His/Her sub/slave,,, wouldnt it?
[21:24] * Cougarwng nods
[21:24] <raven^Ron> yes that would certainly play a part..
[21:24] <raven^Ron> but would one sub be in control of the other to a certain extent?
[21:24] <victoria`> i think it enhances it..... it takes al ot to get past one poersonal insecurities of having other there... learning to trust and know your place is a hard one.. but .. its one that certainly has made me clamer and more sure of myslef
[21:24] <victoria`> i know where i belong
[21:24] <raven^Ron> Ron: No not neccessarily..though it can be one dom wiht two subs..
[21:24] <victoria`> generally yes raven^Ron
[21:25] <raven^Ron> you're right victoria, it takes a lot to get to such a point... :)
[21:25] <Cougarwng> Well put, victoria. I'm hoping my pets and I can reach that point together.
[21:25] <raven^Ron> but Ron, that is not taking into consideration the natural personalities of the subs..what if one is naturally more of a "leader" than the other?
[21:25] <victoria`> its encompassing the trust and knowledge that you are loved and respected that makes it easy to accept and come to enjoy
[21:25] <EZRiser> there will always be an alpha ..
[21:25] <raven^Ron> Ron: THen that would take place natrually, you wouldn't have to push it..people will find their level of comfort in a relationship...
[21:26] <raven^Ron> true victoria..
[21:26] <victoria`> i think there needs to be.. in any society there is apecking order
[21:26] <victoria`> d/s is no different
[21:26] <raven^Ron> this is true victoria...
[21:27] <Cougarwng> *nods* I'm curious as to how it would resolve between one who is more of a leader than the other, and one who is the primary....
[21:27] <victoria`> eg.. Sir doesnt *make love* to the ponys... BUT.. if he wanted to.. he would tell me and explain why.. he would have a good reason.. and i would trust that to be wise and true
[21:27] <dawn-s> perosnally i hav eno problem with Master playing with another sub, or having another Domm/e playing with me,,, but i know id have a problem if i thought it went as far as sexual,,,, , buts thats just me,,,,,,,
[21:27] <raven^Ron> Do you think there are some people using polygamy in bdsm to have more than one partner, but for the wrong reasons? like..they want a stable of "sex slaves"??
[21:27] <victoria`> absolutely !! raven^Ron !
[21:27] <dawn-s> raven^Ron yes!
[21:27] <raven^Ron> ponies victoria?
[21:27] <Cougarwng> I'd have to say yes.
[21:28] <raven^Ron> I can udnerstand that dawn
[21:28] <raven^Ron> Ron: true dawn, jealousy can rise up all too easily in a polygamous relationship..
[21:28] * Cougarwng nods... unfortunately true
[21:28] <victoria`> but they come unstick pretty quick.. they are never able to manage them for any longer than it takes for them to get jeolous.. with out controlling that all is lost
[21:28] <victoria`> unstuck
[21:28] <raven^Ron> true victoria..
[21:29] <raven^Ron> So how do you know the player (stable guy) from a person seeking a truly satisfying polygamous relationship?
[21:30] <raven^Ron> Ron: you can tell them because they would be more interested in making a relationship work than jumping in the sack..and if that takes motnhs or years, then it takes months or years..
[21:30] <victoria`> bdsm is a highly sexual arena.. there with always be sexual preditors.. but then again. the same could be said for any arena... its a matter of learning to know and trust
[21:30] <Cougarwng> The way they treat all people involved. If they treat them with respect and dignity, and obviously cherish them, it's definitely more likely the latter.
[21:30] <EZRiser> it would seem to become apparent in how satisfied and comfortable he keeps his subs .. that he is able to quell any feelings of jealousy
[21:30] <victoria`> exactly raven^Ron
[21:30] <raven^Ron> I agree Cougarwng.. :)
[21:31] <dawn-s> i dont think i can pput norm nilla values on my relationship,,, as they are so far outside what is the general accepted guidelins,,,, isnt it up to the core unit, be it whatever, to decide what they want and feel comfortable with?
[21:31] <ayli> how can one person effectivly keep up with 2 or 3.. or 4 for that matter?
[21:31] <raven^Ron> yes dawn, it is..
[21:31] <Cougarwng> Agreed, dawn :)
[21:31] <victoria`> its takes an extraordinary Dom/Domme to manage a stable.. or group... it takes individual care, love and respect, the time ascpect is huge.. its a full time committment
[21:32] <raven^Ron> Ron whispers to ayli: viagra?? no ummm...patience..making sure they give time to everyone involved seperately and together...??
[21:32] <raven^Ron> it sounds like it would be victoria..
[21:32] <victoria`> yes.. or have seniors help with the juniors
[21:32] <Cougarwng> agreed Rob ;-)
[21:32] <victoria`> delegation
[21:32] <ayli> yes.. I can see that working.. it just seems.. as though it would be overwelming
[21:32] <Cougarwng> Time certainly helps. If the other partners aren't also involved with others it helps for them to have outside interests.
[21:33] <dawn-s> smile*, the D/s and bdsm ppl are the most non judgemental ive met, they may not agree with anothers values, but they hardly ever judge,,,,
[21:33] <victoria`> i think its a lifestyle choice ayli .. i think it would be hard to manage it as a secondary focus
[21:33] <victoria`> hi AlstrBlck :)
[21:33] <Cougarwng> That way they feel the absence less.... But it is hard to manage.
[21:33] <Cougarwng> Agreed victoria...
[21:33] <raven^Ron> that makes sense Cougarwng...
[21:33] <raven^Ron> would you say it takes a special kind of person to be happy in a poly?
[21:34] <victoria`> its helpful if you can have them all as part of your everyday LIFE
[21:34] <Cougarwng> Depending on the relationship, yes, if one or more of the people involved isn't naturally poly.
[21:34] <Cougarwng> True victoria :)
[21:34] <EZRiser> I would say that it takes a person willing to accept and embrace that commitment .. knowing up front what obstacles could and would face them .. willing to work past them
[21:35] * Cougarwng chuckles and nods to EZRiser
[21:35] <raven^Ron> being part of the everyday life would make it easier I would think because then tehre would not be so much separation...the other people would be there all the time, even if you aren't actively doing something with that person..
[21:35] <ayli> yes.. I can see that would help raven..
[21:36] <raven^Ron> I lived a poly for a year and a half...as well as the last 6 months of my marriage was poly as well...
[21:36] <Cougarwng> *nods*
[21:36] <raven^Ron> jealousy was a problem in the marriage one..but not the d/s one..
[21:36] <raven^Ron> still...I can't say what made it work and what didn't..though the poly is not what broke the d/s relationship...but it did break the marriage..
[21:37] <Cougarwng> Different people, different ways of handling things?
[21:37] <raven^Ron> what happens if a poly comes into an existing relationship...should the newest member be the one to leave should the prior relationship start having trouble from the new addition?
[21:37] <EZRiser> honesty is crucial .. saying one thing .. then doing another .. in any degree .. can destroy a poly or monogomous relationship
[21:37] <raven^Ron> yes..that is basically it Cougarwng.. :)
[21:37] <raven^Ron> true EZ..
[21:37] <Cougarwng> Agreed EZ...
[21:38] <Cougarwng> Hmm... IMHO, unless the original was having problems before, and if the new problems are unresolvable yes.
[21:38] <raven^Ron> how does one handle conflict in a poly
[21:38] <raven^Ron> Ron: spank everyone??
[21:39] <EZRiser> I believe things like that .. discussing .. playing 'devils advocate' before embarking on such a journey .. should quell any such problems ..
[21:39] <ayli> comunication!
[21:39] <raven^Ron> raven rolls her eyes and thinks of spanking Ron
[21:39] * ayli laughs
[21:39] * ayli runs off and looks for the hairbrush
[21:39] <Cougarwng> Very true EZ.... My mate is naturally monogamous, very much so, and I'm... not... I mentally rehearsed some of the scenarios we'd probably run into
[21:40] <Cougarwng> and the questions he'd ask. When he was ready to ask them, I had answers ready :)
[21:40] <raven^Ron> I would say that frequent honest communication between everyone is neccessary..maybe "fmaily discussions">?
[21:40] <raven^Ron> Ron: seriously relationships, even basic vanilla one on one relationships are difficult, add to that the level of trust, honesty, communication neccessary in a d/s one..then add a third person into the mix..the divorce rate is 70% for marriages...I've never heard of a poly lasting more than a couple years.
[21:42] <Cougarwng> I have luckily... I know of some in the 4+ years region.... All of those were also BDSM, interestingly enough.
[21:42] <raven^Ron> I wonder if the bdsm makes it easier somehow because the level of communication is so much higher?
[21:42] <Cougarwng> I think so, that and the increased trust.
[21:43] <raven^Ron> I can see how the level of trust would be very helpful in a poly
[21:44] <raven^Ron> Ron: Yes I think that communication and trust in a bdsm would help a poly survive but all of the people have to be comfortable with a poly
[21:44] <raven^Ron> do all the people in a poly have to like each other?
[21:45] <EZRiser> absolutely !!!1
[21:45] <raven^Ron> I agree EZ...
[21:45] <Cougarwng> I would recommend it highly. Personally I would want all parties involved on at the least passing friendly terms.
[21:45] <EZRiser> yes .. and oral sex passin in the hall dont work ..
[21:45] <raven^Ron> Would the negotiation period for a poly d/s relationship take longer?
[21:45] <Cougarwng> The -very- least, if it's a live-in.
[21:46] <raven^Ron> LOL EZ
[21:46] * Cougarwng laughs...
[21:46] <Cougarwng> I believe so, if only because of all the new factors involved.
[21:46] * ayli laughs
[21:46] <raven^Ron> Ron laughs
[21:46] <ayli> how do you do oral sex while passing in the hall
[21:46] <raven^Ron> so why have a poly with all the extra stuff involved, the time, communication, trust...all that??
[21:47] <Cougarwng> Because it's worth it, if it works :)
[21:47] <EZRiser> if its fulfilling for all involved ... all .. why not try ..
[21:48] <raven^Ron> What makes it worth it Cougarwng?
[21:48] <raven^Ron> I agree EZ...
[21:48] <Cougarwng> The bond between the people involved for one, like having several close friends only much, much better *s*....
[21:49] * raven^Ron nods..I can understand that Cougarwng...it was nice when the poly I was in actually worked...
[21:49] * Cougarwng nods
[21:49] * ayli tilts her head
[21:49] <ayli> maybe the people involved need it?
[21:49] <victoria`> i asked the same one in the beginning.. i thought that perhaps he didnt find me satidfying.. that maybe... i couldnt give him everything he needed
[21:49] <raven^Ron> same as we need bdsm?
[21:49] <Cougarwng> The fact that many things are just more convenient with more people to shoulder the load (crises, etc.)
[21:50] <raven^Ron> that is very true Cougarwng... :)
[21:50] <EZRiser> share the load .. if you will Cougarwng?
[21:50] <ayli> yes raven
[21:50] <raven^Ron> Ron: are you in a poly now?
[21:50] <ayli> and what was your answer victoria?
[21:50] <aniles> I can definately see the appeal of a poly, although I have never been involved in one.
[21:50] <Cougarwng> Borderline. Things are at that intriguing undefined stage. *s*
[21:50] <raven^Ron> ye EZ...like, two women with kids makes more than one Mom...easier for housecleaning, it doesn't all fall to one person..if a problem arises, there are more people to handle it..specially if things get split up by who does what best..
[21:51] <Cougarwng> *nods*
[21:51] <victoria`> the thing was.. i couldnt.. there were thing is didnt enjoy.. im not a slave.. im a submissive by desire not by nature.. so finding those who could fulfil certains needs turned out the way to go.. i trust him.. i know he loeves me.. and i know they are not replacing me.. they are there to recive and give different pleasure.. each one trained in different areas so that they know theri defined roles
[21:51] <EZRiser> as long as one doesnt feel .. even remotely .. that they are getting the raw end of the stick .. yes .. again .. communication
[21:51] <victoria`> that was long .. sorry lol
[21:51] <raven^Ron> no problem victoria..
[21:52] <Cougarwng> Makes sense victoria...
[21:52] <raven^Ron> Ron: you communicated what you wanted to say very well victoria..
[21:52] * ayli giggles.. mom2
[21:52] <victoria`> and i do wish i had one here right now that could type lol
[21:52] <raven^Ron> I can see how that would be very helpful victoria...and how it could easily work...
[21:52] <raven^Ron> LOLOL victoria..
[21:52] * Cougarwng nods to EZRiser... from what I've seen that's one of the more common problems...
[21:52] <ayli> that does make allot of sense victoria
[21:52] * raven^Ron looks at ayli..mom number 2..yup..that fits you gf..
[21:52] * ayli giggles
[21:52] <victoria`> no one steps on toes.. we respect each other
[21:52] <raven^Ron> Ron: then what does that make me?? dad # 3?
[21:53] <victoria`> we know in our own ways that we are very very special to Him
[21:53] * raven^Ron laughs..no that makes you DOminant and dad #1..you know, the one supposedly in control...
[21:53] <ayli> your the only one here Ron.. you get to be Dad #1..
[21:53] <raven^Ron> ROn laughs
[21:53] * Cougarwng chuckles
[21:53] * ayli giggles.. and you should see the MM jump when someone yells RON
[21:53] <victoria`> hehe
[21:53] <raven^Ron> though...this is a non sexual arrangement..it could be considered poly..
[21:54] <EZRiser> own ways .. victoria .. dont at times you desire all the ways?
[21:54] <EZRiser> doesnt everyone .. desire the same .. looking for total devotion ..
[21:54] <victoria`> for me.. as his primary.. it is all ways..
[21:55] <Cougarwng> Agreed... I personally think that sex doesn't need to be involved for the other aspects to be present
[21:55] <victoria`> im not sure how i would manage being other than primary
[21:55] <ayli> some people may be happy with not having to be .. primary
[21:55] <victoria`> but then.. lol.. i never though i would be in this situation either
[21:55] <Cougarwng> That's one thing I'm curious about... how to balance the need of one partner for total devotion
[21:55] <EZRiser> some cant manage being anything less ... regardless of how much they are assured that they are
[21:55] <ayli> then they shouldn't try EZ..
[21:55] <victoria`> correct ayli .. the girls are happy.. they enjoy their roles... but on a whole.. they are very submissive by nature
[21:56] <ayli> you shouldn't try to fit into a role that doesn't suit you
[21:56] <raven^Ron> I can take being second provided I know I am important to the relationship ..the family..and the dominant...
[21:56] <Cougarwng> and the need of the other for multiple partners. How would one make sure that all partners knew the devotion and love was present for all?
[21:56] <victoria`> being a switch tends to allow me more scope in their training as well
[21:56] <raven^Ron> I agree ayli..if one feels they must be the ONLY..a poly is definitely not for them..
[21:56] <raven^Ron> time spent with each Cougarwng?
[21:56] <ayli> besides, wouldn't each person feel they had THIER place, no one else could fill it?
[21:56] <raven^Ron> makes sense to me ayli
[21:56] <raven^Ron> Ron: if one feels they need total singular comittment, it is best they not get into a poly..
[21:57] <ayli> such as.. "I am good at this" and "Your good at this" I don't see how there would be a problem then
[21:57] <Cougarwng> *nods*
[21:57] <raven^Ron> is it dangerous for a sub to say or think "I can change him so he wants just me?" and enter into a relationship with a man/woman who states clearly they prefer poly?
[21:57] <ayli> YES
[21:57] <raven^Ron> that's how my poly worked gf..
[21:57] <victoria`> total trust Cougarwng .. complete fail that when you are told you are loved and cherish.. you dont soubt it for amoment.. when he says he will do something he always does.. NEVER breaking a committment to time .. training etc
[21:57] <aniles> sounds as though they are setting themselves up for disaster.
[21:57] <Cougarwng> Yes. It hurts them both.
[21:58] <ayli> stupid.. and someone would be hurt
[21:58] * raven^Ron got the tasks she was best at...which was a lot more than the other woman involved...budget, office, you name it..
[21:58] <raven^Ron> I would agree Cougarwng...
[21:58] <Cougarwng> Each feels bad for hurting the other, and for hurting themselves as well.
[21:58] * Cougarwng is in a rather uncomfortable situation... naturally poly, with a naturally mono sub and a naturally poly potential other :/
[21:58] <raven^Ron> yes...being consistent would build the trust in the sub victoria..that would make it alot easier for the sub to be secure in a poly relationship...
[21:59] <Cougarwng> very good advice victoria.... My thanks :)
[21:59] <victoria`> there are rules... rules that if broken are punishable.. noone wants to be punished.... its expected that we behave a certain way... its a peer thing too.. we tend to remind each other of the rules and well.. shit.. we like each other:))
[21:59] <raven^Ron> so, what happens if a trust issue comes up, where something happens that the sub's trust is hurt a little? (which happens in any relationship from time to time)
[22:00] <raven^Ron> that works victoria :)))
[22:00] * raven^Ron hates punishment
[22:00] <Cougarwng> Indeed :)
[22:00] <ayli> by what though raven, one of the others, or the Dominant?
[22:00] <raven^Ron> lets start with the dominant...
[22:00] <ayli> I would think the situations would be handled differently
[22:00] <Cougarwng> It would depend almost completely on the situation. :/
[22:01] <Cougarwng> IMO/IME.
[22:01] <raven^Ron> Ron: I wanted to say this a minute ago..No one should get into any relationship thinking they can change the other person, yu have to love them for who they are now..not who you want them to be..
[22:01] <victoria`> well.. commonce sence kicks in for us raven^Ron .. its usually just a slip up.. a forgotten session.. forgetting to collect someone.. they can get a bit toey around pmt.. we tend to work it out oursleves.. i talk to them.. hgs .. kisses.. remind them they are loved.. its just like looking after someone you love.. you want them to be happy
[22:01] <raven^Ron> true...
[22:01] <victoria`> does that make sence
[22:01] <raven^Ron> yes..that makes a lot of sense..
[22:02] <Cougarwng> Indeed it does....
[22:02] <ayli> oh.. thats a nice way to handle things
[22:02] <victoria`> its like a family
[22:02] <raven^Ron> So it would be handled the same way it would be in a mono relationship, only extra people to lean on?
[22:02] <victoria`> its not overtly D/s// unless we are in the dungeon
[22:02] <victoria`> for sure raven^Ron
[22:02] <EZRiser> it is a family .. not in the traditional sense .. but it is a family
[22:02] <raven^Ron> d/s doesn't need to be overt..
[22:02] <Cougarwng> *nods* I believe so, raven^Ron
[22:03] <ayli> isn't any group of people who love each other family
[22:03] <victoria`> they have there say... they have the right to speak and to voice concerns.. each is given consideration.. no one has ever been told.. oh dont be silly
[22:03] <Cougarwng> Yes ayli :)
[22:03] <raven^Ron> I think so ayli...we are a family..
[22:03] * ayli smiles
[22:04] <raven^Ron> That is very important victoria...being able to talk and know you are listened to..
[22:04] * ayli nods nods nods
[22:04] <victoria`> the hardest part is introdusing someone new
[22:04] <victoria`> introducing
[22:04] <raven^Ron> wouldn't that require alot of talking with those already there?
[22:04] <Cougarwng> *nods* how so?
[22:05] <victoria`> who even though has been given a contract.. rules etc.. may still beleive she can change the worls lol
[22:05] <ayli> how would it be handled if no one Wanted a new person victoria? other then the Dominant of course
[22:05] <victoria`> world
[22:05] <raven^Ron> Ron: yes ayli, we are family..
[22:05] <victoria`> ok.. well.. there were 3 of us...
[22:05] * ayli giggles
[22:05] <victoria`> neither myslef.. or velvet liked anal
[22:05] <Cougarwng> *nods*
[22:05] * raven^Ron listens to victoria..
[22:05] <victoria`> we werer happy that Master got a new gurl for anl.. saved us sore bums lol
[22:06] <raven^Ron> LOLOL
[22:06] <raven^Ron> ok..under those circumstances it makes sense..
[22:06] <raven^Ron> Ron laughs
[22:06] <victoria`> we talked about it.. worked it all out....
[22:06] * ayli giggles..
[22:06] <victoria`> of course it does.. its logic
[22:06] <victoria`> why do something that i dont HAVE to do if someone else can do it lol
[22:06] <EZRiser> and sat easier after it was all over and done with .. <s>
[22:06] <victoria`> excatly
[22:06] <ayli> I was just asking.. well.. what if you hadn't liked the person he picked, or what if you just plain and simply didn't wish another person?
[22:07] <victoria`> so.. it comes down to each having defined roles
[22:07] <raven^Ron> however, lets take me for example..there are very few types of play/sex that I do not enjoy...and I'm willing to try almost anything once (no kids or dead people however)...so in that case, the reason for bringing another in is not so clear cut as I don't like anal...how does one handle bringing a new one in then?
[22:07] <victoria`> not steeping over the line.. not trying to vye for more attention
[22:07] <victoria`> etc
[22:07] <victoria`> ok.. there must be csomething raven^Ron .. that wouldnt shatter you not to have to do????
[22:08] <victoria`> if someone came along.. that you liked.. that your Master liked (as a person).. who was happy to give those pleasure.. would you not want to sahre?
[22:08] <victoria`> share
[22:08] <raven^Ron> yes..I would share my master, if I had one, with a person I liked..who liked me..I can do that...
[22:08] * raven^Ron tries to think of something she hates in a physical sense...ummmm...does laundry count?
[22:08] <victoria`> well thats more of what im talking about raven^Ron
[22:08] <EZRiser> all depends on how giving a person, or persons are ...
[22:09] <victoria`> actually it does lol
[22:09] <raven^Ron> honestly...I enjoy every type of play I've done..and every sexual thing I've done..(ok so I'm a slut)
[22:09] <victoria`> ok.. well move away from the sexual.. what about mind games
[22:09] <victoria`> having someone to practice bondage on
[22:09] <EZRiser> no place for them ..
[22:09] <raven^Ron> Ohhhh...yes..there are some I do not like..I do not like humiliation beyond very light stuff...my self esteem can't handle it...
[22:10] <victoria`> eg.. one girl is only ever tied up and masturbated.. she can never come by our hand :)
[22:10] <victoria`> would you enjoy that raven^Ron ?
[22:10] <raven^Ron> so hell yes..if my master liked that, I would have no problem with him finding someone he could do that with.. :)
[22:10] <raven^Ron> no..I'd be frustrated.. LOL
[22:11] <victoria`> there is no end to the differnt roles one canundertake in a poly relalitionship.. its endless
[22:11] <ayli> NO>. not a frustraited raven!
[22:11] <victoria`> excatly.. you wouldnt like it.. nor would i lol
[22:11] * ayli hides under Ron's couch
[22:11] <raven^Ron> Ron laughs at ayli
[22:11] <raven^Ron> gee thanks gf.. :)
[22:11] * victoria` grins at ayli .. hiding again
[22:11] * Cougarwng smiles
[22:11] <raven^Ron> you're right..and now i understand that...
[22:11] * raven^Ron cuts the legs off Ron's couch and drags ayli out of there before it falls..no hiding in LnR gf
[22:11] <ayli> only in pretend these days
[22:12] * ayli gets half squished
[22:12] <raven^Ron> except for the subbie den gf...
[22:12] <victoria`> i think it would be tough idf the Dominant didnt have total control over the whole group... iot would be chaos
[22:12] <raven^Ron> Ron: or in a really extended relationship..the dominants..
[22:12] <raven^Ron> you're right victoria..and I agree with that completely having lived through a poly where the dom??? couldn't control anything most of the time..
[22:12] <ayli> I'd think it'd take a very strong dominant to be in control ALL the time.. and is it possible?
[22:13] <raven^Ron> that depends on whether or not the subs involved see control as overt actions..or that silen firm knowledge of who is in charge..
[22:14] * victoria` nods
[22:14] <raven^Ron> I find that domination is more of a "feeling" than an action...if that makes any sense..
[22:15] * raven^Ron is thinking while typing..sooooo..this may not come out very well..
[22:15] *** Disconnected
[22:17] *** Topic is '(18+ BDSM) Discussion: Sun. 8/6/00 @ 10PM Eastern: Polygamy in BDSM (http://www.leatherNroses.com)'
[22:17] <ravnshad> and a sub, poly or not, will KNOW who is in charge even if the dom is not playing or what have you..even if he/she is not home
[22:17] * ravnshad returns...
[22:18] *** ravnshad is now known as raven^Ron
[22:18] <raven^Ron> ty ayli :)
[22:18] <victoria`> oh.. it ravenshad.. i didnt know that!
[22:18] <raven^Ron> ty victoria :)
[22:18] <Cougarwng> greetings raven^Ron :)
[22:18] <victoria`> hehe
[22:18] * raven^Ron gigles..yes...I am typing for two people victoria..myself and Ron..
[22:18] * ayli giggles
[22:18] <raven^Ron> we only have two internet ready puters..so on discussion nights we share a keyboard..sometimes it is ayli^Ron
[22:18] <victoria`> exo raven^Ron :))... i didnt realise it was you :)
[22:18] * raven^Ron giggles
[22:18] <raven^Ron> no problem victoria :)
[22:18] *** raven^Ron is now known as ravenshad
[22:18] <ravenshad> since Ron has wandered away..
[22:18] <victoria`> ok :))
[22:19] <ravenshad> what did I miss?
[22:19] <victoria`> hehe
[22:19] <victoria`> i dont have a lot longer either
[22:19] <ravenshad> I wanted to say thank you all for coming..I am enjoying this discussion quite a bit :)
[22:19] <victoria`> nothing we waited for youuuu!
[22:19] <ayli> I paused
[22:19] <ravenshad> shall we end it here then?
[22:19] <ravenshad> thanks gf :)
[22:19] * ayli giggles and hits the play button on raven
[22:19] * ravenshad giggles
[22:19] * victoria` nods.. i need to clean :((
[22:19] <ravenshad> eewwwww..cleaning..ACK
[22:19] * ayli giggles
[22:20] <ravenshad> well victoria..we have discussions every Sunday night..please feel welcome to come..
[22:20] * Cougarwng nods... I need to eat and take care of some work *s*
[22:20] <victoria`> i know.. NOT how its supposed to happen.. but even the best layed plans come apart sometimes lol
[22:20] <ayli> whats next week gf?
[22:21] <ravenshad> What is lifestyle BDSM is next week...:)
[22:21] <ravenshad> you are most welcome victoria..I appreciate you coming :)
[22:21] <victoria`> thank Cougarwng .. i need lots of sympathy.....got to get the wax off the floor.. i dont do knees well lol
[22:21] <ayli> Hello Marv
[22:21] <Cougarwng> Thanks for the discussion and the company both, I'll try to be here next week as well....
[22:21] <Marv> hi
[22:21] <ravenshad> Ron returns wide eyed from the laundry room...good thing we have extra hands here..
[22:21] <Cougarwng> Uh-oh.... Good luck then as well
[22:21] * victoria` waves tata lovelies :))))))
[22:21] <ravenshad> I would like that Cougarwng...it was nice meeting you :)
[22:21] <ravenshad> be well victoria :)
[22:21] <ayli> bye victoria` :) please come again
[22:21] <Cougarwng> Greetings Marv....
[22:21] <Marv> hi
[22:21] <ravenshad> Hello Marv
[22:21] <Marv> hi
[22:22] <Cougarwng> Nice meetings you all as well :) I'll see you all next week hopefully....
[22:22] <ravenshad> END FOR LOGGING PURPOSES
![[Blue Ribbon Campaign icon]](/images/ribbarwh.gif){kind=small}