Session Start:
Sun Jul 30 20:43:30 2000
[21:11] * raven-Ron says Hello and welcome to leather
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[21:11] <raven-Ron> Tonight's topic is BDSM with children
in the home....
[21:12] <raven-Ron> How does having children affect
a d/s relationship?
[21:12] <EZRiser> that would depend first on the extent
of the relationship ... so define relationship ..
[21:13] <raven-Ron> ok..for sake of argument...a d/s
relationship being a comitted relationship with a collar...that the
submissive defers to the dominant on almost everything...
[21:14] <raven-Ron> Ron: it puts it on the back burner
sometimes because you can't do some things in front of children...
[21:14] <raven-Ron> raven: like what can't be done
in front of children?
[21:14] <LadyMist> I think having children can
be very rewarding to the relationship...
[21:14] <raven-Ron> Ron: Lectures
[21:14] <raven-Ron> raven: depends on how the lecture
is done Ron...
[21:14] <raven-Ron> how sow LM?
[21:14] <raven-Ron> be well tabi
[21:14] <LadyMist> anything that feels like "adult"
interaction...
[21:15] <LadyMist> I think children benefit from leanring
how a chain of command works...
[21:15] <raven-Ron> yes..I agree LM..
[21:15] <LadyMist> mommy defers to daddy...opr visa
versa...
[21:15] <LadyMist> as daddy defers to Mr policeman..
[21:15] <EZRiser> they see that in a d/s or vanilla
relationship ..
[21:15] <LadyMist> and Mr judge...
[21:15] <raven-Ron> is it really that different to
have a female sub defering to her dom than a wife deferring to her husband
like they did almost all the time 50 years or so ago?
[21:15] <raven-Ron> yes EZ
[21:15] <LadyMist> I think it bring it home more in
a D/s relationship...
[21:16] <raven-Ron> Ron: Yes because it is not 50 years
ago..kids see sitcoms and other relationships and wonder why yours is
different..
[21:16] <EZRiser> tho in a vanilla .. its more a give
and take ..
[21:16] <LadyMist> it is different... in that... there
are daddy deferring to mommies..
[21:16] <LadyMist> mommies deferring to mommies..
[21:16] <raven-Ron> raven: well, couldn't you just
explain that every relationship is different and that you like yours
that way?
[21:16] <raven-Ron> true LM
[21:16] <ayli> makes it harder?
[21:16] <ayli> have to hide things you wouldn't if
there were no children
[21:16] <ayli> have to be quiet
[21:16] <ayli> certainly can't order your sub to run
around naked all day
[21:16] <LadyMist> more than one mommy in the house...
<-- like my house...
[21:16] <raven-Ron> true ayli
[21:16] <LadyMist> depends on the house...
[21:17] <LadyMist> and the parnets feelings on nuduty...
[21:17] <raven-Ron> Ron: damn..naked subbie would be
good
[21:17] <LadyMist> many don't see nudity = sexulaity..
[21:17] <raven-Ron> Ron: true..but that would be if
the kids grew up with it..what if a couple decides to pursue it when
the kids grew up to say age 10 to 14 without it..
[21:18] <LadyMist> thankfully I don't have to make
that decision... I think it would be more difficult...
[21:18] <ayli> is it a healthy thing to teach children
though
[21:18] <raven-Ron> raven is glad she isn't the only
one tied to a chair tonight..
[21:18] <LadyMist> healthy? that one can be accepted
no matter how different one feels?
[21:19] <EZRiser> works both ways .. one can be casual
about nudity until the kids reach a certain age .. then the casualness
disappears as the kids become more aware of their own sexuality
[21:19] <raven-Ron> raven: I think a great number of
things can indeed be done in front of children, without any harm to
the children or their natural development..
[21:19] <LadyMist> we teach them that vanilla is ok...why
not the other?
[21:19] <LAR^> Raven: Children in the home, Children
in the relationship, or Children around in general
[21:19] <ayli> I just mean.. is it healthy.. to show
your child.. that one parent always defers to the other
[21:19] <raven-Ron> raven: however, I think it requires
the parents to be more available and open with their children to answer
questions and foster the belief that being different is not something
to be afraid of or to despise in others..
[21:19] <raven-Ron> raven: and to foster a belief that
there can indeed be many different types of relationships...that a person
has to choose for themselves what they are happiest with..
[21:19] <LadyMist> as long as you tell them that other
relationshiops work in other ways...
[21:20] <raven-Ron> Lar: Children living in the house
with a d/s couple (married or not)
[21:20] * LAR^ notes that all his kid sees is Dad being
a gentleman to his lady. We keep most of the D/s subtle around him.
IF at all
[21:20] <raven-Ron> Ron: Lar, that was raven's diatribe
[21:20] <LadyMist> they see the differences when
they sociualize with other children...
[21:20] <LadyMist> I am sure he gets it...most children
do...
[21:20] <raven-Ron> I can understand that EZ..about
the nudity...personally, I couldn't parade around naked in front of
my kids...but I certainly don't freak out if they walk in while I'm
changing or something..
[21:21] <raven-Ron> good point LM..we do teach that
vanilla is OK..and I think we should teach that all are ok..not just
vanilla
[21:21] <LadyMist> exactly...
[21:21] <EZRiser> but if a child is comfortable with
what they grow up with .. whats normal for a given hosehold is normal
for the child ..
[21:21] <LAR^> elle: Why do they even have to know
the difference between vanilla and BDSM?
[21:21] <raven-Ron> raven: would you say that it is
neccessary for a parent involved in BDSM, to be more open to communication
with their child?
[21:21] <ayli> they will notice it all by themselves
[21:21] <raven-Ron> true EZ
[21:21] <EZRiser> if one is accustomed to it .. when
they dont see it .. they perceive it as abnormal
[21:21] <raven-Ron> Ron waves at elle
[21:22] <raven-Ron> true as well EZ
[21:22] <ayli> other families they visit... won't be
Like mommy and daddy.. and they are going to ask questions.. and kids
to ask the hardest questions
[21:22] <LAR^> elle: Isn't that soemthing that they
should come to terms with on their own and if they are old enough and
responsible enough to handle it...mature enough... then tell them if
they question?
[21:22] <raven-Ron> ayli makes a good point..kids are
very observant..they will notice fairly quickly that thier parents are
not "normal" by others' standards...
[21:22] * ayli wouldn't say anything if they didn't question..
but should be honest when they do
[21:22] <LadyMist> they see power exchanges in every
relationship...even the one they have with siblings....
[21:23] <LadyMist> so extending it.. into equality...or
inequality isn't a prblem...
[21:23] <LAR^> elle: but the question i am asking is
why would you even use the term "bdsm" to a child? so they're observant?
simply tell them that relationships all work different and this is how
your parents chose to interact with each other...to us, we define that
to Master's child as Master being a gentleman to me...
[21:23] <raven-Ron> raven: that is a personal decision
elle, but for me, I have found that answering my daughter's questions
as they arise instead of telling her "when you're older" has worked
wonders for me..she is alot more accepting of things than many kids
her age...
[21:23] <LadyMist> I haven't said to use the acronym
BDSM...
[21:23] <LadyMist> deference works wonders...
[21:23] <raven-Ron> raven: yes elle..that is what I
said a little bit ago...but eventually the kid will ask questions like
"Why did daddy spank you?" ..
[21:23] <raven-Ron> or "did you like it when daddy
spanked you?"
[21:23] <LadyMist> Along with the "when you are older
argument..."
[21:24] <EZRiser> and the correct answer is 'yes'
[21:24] <raven-Ron> raven <sigh> unfortunately LM,
I never had the luxury of using the "when you were older argument with
my daughter..
[21:24] <LadyMist> when is a child exposed to dfaddy
spanking mommy?
[21:24] <raven-Ron> noise travels LM..and kids are
nosey..
[21:24] <LadyMist> I can see accidents...
[21:24] <ayli> they Can hear LadyMist..
[21:24] <ayli> and they do walk in..
[21:24] <LadyMist> LOL
[21:24] <LAR^> elle: for us that just isn't a quesiton
that would come up - due to circumstances that arose with Master's x-wife...
Kevin would never see Master spanking me or otherwise
[21:24] <LadyMist> mine sleep like the dead...
[21:24] <LadyMist> and we do go to parties...
[21:24] * ayli giggles..
[21:24] <raven-Ron> not neccessarily see you elle...hear
you play..
[21:25] <LAR^> elle: we wait until he is alseep or
find something else for him to be doing a night that we choose to play..or
we go out.
[21:25] <LadyMist> I am not going to let them see or
hear "play" to me... that is equivalent to sex...
[21:25] <Master_69> I think being honest when a child
ask why you spanked mommy is always best way, if you feel there
old enought to understand whats going on you may as well just give it
to them straight :)
[21:25] <ayli> accidents happen
[21:25] <raven-Ron> raven: that's a good way to handle
it..but be prepared for an "accident" elle..it does and will happen..
[21:25] <ayli> and why not be honest when they do question?
[21:25] <raven-Ron> raven: I agree Master69...
[21:25] <LadyMist> Not here...LOL...we haven't done
crap while chensay's mom has been in town...
[21:25] <LadyMist> longest month of my liofe...
[21:25] <raven-Ron> Ron: LOL LM
[21:25] <LAR^> elle: but then again, it is like you
said...on the off chance that there is some type of accident where he
sees or hears us...if he is mature enough to ask, he deserves a decent
answer.
[21:25] <raven-Ron> raven: LOL LM
[21:26] <raven-Ron> Ron; yes he does if he's mature
enough to handle it
[21:26] <raven-Ron> raven: doesn't that raise the whole
tailor the answer to the child's age thing?
[21:26] <LadyMist> yes
[21:26] <raven-Ron> raven: I mean come on, when discussing
where babies come from with children, don't you tailor the answer to
just the exact question the child asked, with the response being at
their age level?
[21:26] <LadyMist> yes
[21:27] <ayli> thats fairly easy.. at four.. mommy
didn't do what she was told.. so daddy spanked her.. just like he does
when your bad.. at thirteen.. that ain't gonna fly
[21:27] <raven-Ron> raven: so, if a child hears a spanking
or other play noise...lets say the child is 7..and asks "What was that
noise mommy?"..the answer could be.."Daddy and I were playing around"
...
[21:27] <LadyMist> I agree.,,,
[21:27] <raven-Ron> Ron: taht true ayli..
[21:27] <LAR^> elle: i think that the biggest problem
with kids in the house is having toys around...i know that when i was
a kid i rooted in EVERYTHING my parents had..my mom was a "squirreler"
in that she hid important stuff (like candy!)
[21:27] <raven-Ron> raven; with such an answer..there
is no lie, but the child gets the answer they want..
[21:27] <EZRiser> and if that spanking is done as punishment
.. is that still playing around?
[21:27] <LadyMist> that's what locks are for..
[21:28] <raven-Ron> raven: this is true..be prepared
to tell what those toys are for...kids will find it..no matter where
you hide it..
[21:28] <raven-Ron> Ron: So how do you hide the toys?
[21:28] <LadyMist> :"adult stuff"
[21:28] <LAR^> raven: you ahve to be careful tho even
with something like "we were playing around" because there are some
kids that will try to play with their playmates in the same way...
[21:28] <raven-Ron> raven: you can lock them up..but
kids will find them..no matter where you put them...
[21:28] <LadyMist> like adult words adult drinks...
[21:28] <LadyMist> adult movies...
[21:28] <ayli> they will try to play with thier playmates
that way Anyways
[21:28] <raven-Ron> true LAR, but if they are natural
dom/sub/sadist/masochist..they'll do it anyway.. :)
[21:28] <LadyMist> adult....this and that and when
YOU are an adult..guess what?
[21:28] <EZRiser> we all knew where dad hid the playboys
..
[21:28] <LadyMist> you can do it too...
[21:28] <raven-Ron> there ya go LM..
[21:28] <ayli> children are naturally curious..
[21:28] <raven-Ron> true EZ
[21:29] <raven-Ron> raven: with my toys, I've always
put the whips in the closet (so I don't have to fold them) and everything
else in my hopse chest...my daughter of course found them..and I had
to explain what they were..
[21:29] <ayli> I don't think it will damage them in
any way.. but I do think hiding every aspect of the adults lives will..
[21:29] <LAR^> LM: i know that is what locks are for...but
if a kid REALLY wants to get into your stuff, they're going to get into
it...
[21:29] <LadyMist> I knew in third grade I was different...and
that my parents wouldn't approve even when they were renting "Sorty
of O"
[21:29] <raven-Ron> raven: my original answer..those
are adult toys...but as time went on..she got older...and asked what
are they for..I told her the truth..
[21:29] <LadyMist> not if they are supervied...
[21:30] <LadyMist> My pet peeve...my apoloigies...
[21:30] * ayli giggles
[21:30] <EZRiser> you cant do that 24/7 LM
[21:30] <LadyMist> my children don't have the time
to get "into " stuff..
[21:30] <LadyMist> I am a stay at home slut...I can...
[21:30] <raven-Ron> raven: LM..supervised or not...kids
will get into stuff they aren't supposed to...when mommy goes out and
the kids have a babysitter..the babysiter is on the phone, kid sneaks
out of bed and roots around in mommy's room...
[21:30] <ayli> uhmm.. LadyMist.. even the most observant
parent.. isn't going to know every single thing a child does every minute
of the day
[21:30] <raven-Ron> Ron: LOL that works..
[21:30] <LadyMist> and leave them with people who I
trust...they might get into stuff else where but not in my home...
[21:30] <ayli> they tend to be very very sneaky.. and
quiet.. when they want to be
[21:31] * LAR^ has always followed the rule that you may
ask anything you like, as long as you are willing to hear the answer,
In the case of children they must be old enough to frame the question.
[21:31] <raven-Ron> yanno LM..my mom used to say the
same thing..and I saw everything she tried to hide.. LOLOL
[21:31] <raven-Ron> but then again..I am a sneaky kid..
[21:31] <LadyMist> LOL... and they don't spend more
then three minutes alone when they are quiet...
[21:31] <raven-Ron> raven: good guideline Lar
[21:31] <LadyMist> and they know...if you want me to
respect YOUR privacy... you must respect mine...
[21:32] <LadyMist> you don't go through my room...
I don't enter yours without knocking...etc...
[21:32] <EZRiser> LM .. want to trade kids?
[21:32] <ayli> hwo old are your children LadyMist?
[21:32] <LadyMist> Nope..I have worked HARD on mine...
[21:32] <raven-Ron> sounds like you did a good job
LM :)
[21:32] <LadyMist> 9 6 3 2 ... young enough to still
be trained...
[21:32] <LadyMist> thank you...
[21:32] <raven-Ron> unforunately not every child is
like that..so one must be prepared to handle the discoveries a prospecting
child will find...
[21:32] * LAR^ has warmed the occasional bottom for failure
to respect that rule. Friends kid, who used to live more at my house
than her own
[21:32] <LadyMist> the three year old is chensays...
[21:33] <raven-Ron> What are some ways d/s can be done
in front of children?
[21:34] <ayli> brb
[21:34] <LAR^> Then again when she asked about what
she found, I told her it was private and taht if she really wanted to
know, she should wait and ask me again in a week
[21:34] * LadyMist likes that...and has done it with the
parental units...
[21:34] <LadyMist> all D/s that is not sexual I think
is safe in frount of littles...
[21:35] <raven-Ron> raven: like what LM?
[21:35] <LadyMist> they don't think anything of an
extra person on the floor with the...
[21:35] <LadyMist> them...
[21:35] <EZRiser> and a child would perceive that response
as 'its not really any of your business, & I am not going to talk
about it ..'
[21:35] <raven-Ron> raven nods..
[21:35] <LadyMist> they don't think anything about
mommy getting daddy a drink when she gets all of their.s...
[21:35] <LadyMist> anything you are comfortable doing...they
will not get a begative feed offa...
[21:35] * LAR^ notes that for some of elle's rules she
looks towards me, and asks with her eyes (I.E. when she needs to get
out of the car and can not wait for me to open the door for her)
[21:35] <raven-Ron> Ron: or kneeling at daddy's feet
[21:36] <raven-Ron> raven: yes...body language can
relay alot..silently <g>
[21:36] <LadyMist> and believe me..they pick up on
all of it...
[21:36] *** chance- is on IRC
[21:36] <raven-Ron> yes they do LM
[21:36] <raven-Ron> but those things are not considered
as "harmful" to kids...and are easily explained, while still maintaining
the mental power exchange..
[21:36] <LadyMist> Donovan was terrified when his father
dunked me at the pool... cause I was HONESTLY trying NOT to get dunked...
[21:37] <LadyMist> he thought daddy was hurting me...
[21:37] <raven-Ron> Ron: yup
[21:37] <raven-Ron> Ron: specially when the submissive
is female, children will be protective of their mother..
[21:37] <raven-Ron> raven: ain't that the truth!!
[21:38] * ayli laughs
[21:38] <LadyMist> yep...and I had to reassure him
that I was fine...
[21:38] <LadyMist> just playing...
[21:38] <ayli> MOOOOOOM> I KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING IN
THERE
[21:38] <raven-Ron> raven shakes her head and sighs..my
12 yr old thinks she is my personal body guard..
[21:38] <raven-Ron> LOLOLOLOL
[21:38] * ayli laughs
[21:38] <LadyMist> like he does with his daddy..
[21:38] <raven-Ron> raven: yes LM
[21:38] <raven-Ron> raven: but again..communication
with the child can solve the problem..
[21:38] <LadyMist> but it is up to you to let her know
she is not responsible for protecting you...
[21:39] <raven-Ron> raven: i have told her repeatedly
LM...but there are extenuating circumstances that make her think I need
protecting..and maybe she's not so wrong in that..
[21:39] <LadyMist> 'G' I can imagine...
[21:39] <EZRiser> thats a childs natural tendency tho
.. they wont ignore anything that they consider out of the ordinary
[21:39] <LadyMist> I only worry that the added power
that the feeling of responsibility gives children robs them of "childhoos"
[21:39] <LadyMist> childhood...
[21:40] <raven-Ron> raven: she just doesn't want to
see me emotionally/mentally hurt/broken again is all...problem is she
blames that on d/s..so tries to protect me from it..
[21:40] <raven-Ron> true EZ
[21:40] <raven-Ron> Ron: hell they'll focus on what's
out of the ordinary..
[21:40] <LadyMist> but she is the child...
[21:40] <LAR^> LM: You hit it right, but children DO
notice when Mommy or Daddy is hurting. Even in nilla relationships.
My niece cried when her Mommy was upset by her grandparents. Even though
her Dad and I were there to help my sister, she took it on herself to
tell her mom. I won't stand by and let them hurt you even if I never
see them again
[21:40] <raven-Ron> raven: well LM, that is a good
point....however, kids didn't always have 18 years of being a child...but
that's a whole nother topic..
[21:40] <LadyMist> not her realm of responsibility...(last
somment I promise...)
[21:40] <ayli> some children, can not help but feel
responsible, and there is nothing really that you can do, other then
try and reasure them about that particular thing.. they will just move
on to the next thing
[21:41] <EZRiser> child or not .. they will take to
defensive for the one they feel is threatened
[21:41] <LAR^> Raven, is the 12 YO the oldest?
[21:41] <raven-Ron> raven: yes LM she is the child..but
even a child is not blind to the devestating afffects of an abusive
relationship...make that a 24/7 m/s relationship and it is even worse
[21:41] <LadyMist> Then they don't need to know about
"adult" things...
[21:41] <ayli> you Can't stop that
[21:41] <raven-Ron> raven: not anymore LAR..I seem
to have been gifted with a 16 yr old and an 11 yr old..
[21:41] <LadyMist> <-- aside from abuse...that is
another realm entirely...
[21:41] <ayli> you can do your best, but you can not
stop them from learning..
[21:41] <raven-Ron> Ron: cursed maybe..not gifted
[21:41] <LAR^> LOL, I meant your oldest
[21:41] <EZRiser> LOL Ron
[21:41] <raven-Ron> raven giggles..yes...she is my
oldest ...my youngest is 4
[21:42] <raven-Ron> In some cases LM, they do need
to know..as in my case with my daughter..I had no choice but to be totally
honest with her when she asked questions..
[21:42] <raven-Ron> and she started it by asking if
it was allright to daydream about being spanked..when she was 8
[21:42] <LadyMist> no choice? why not?
[21:42] <LadyMist> what did that have to sdo with you?
[21:42] <LAR^> ayli: That is a true reality, and telling
them otherwise is not the answer. A child of a divorce where one partner
is abusive, is going to see it as THEIR responsibility to protect the
other parent, for fear of losing them
[21:43] <raven-Ron> raven: history of sexual abuse..makes
my daughter more knowledgeable than she should have been..and alot more
curious than her age normally is...starting at 5
[21:43] <LadyMist> yucka...
[21:43] <raven-Ron> it didn't...it was her daydream
and she thought she was "crazy" for having it..so she asked me for reassurance..I
told her, no it is not bad..
[21:43] <LadyMist> I think all pedophiles should be
drawn and quartered...
[21:43] <raven-Ron> LAR: they either get protective,
or they velcro themselves to your leg
[21:44] <LadyMist> there is a difference?
[21:44] <LAR^> Personally, I would much rather be honest,
WITHOUT going into personal detail. This way the child grows up with
a healthy relationship
[21:44] <LadyMist> I agress...
[21:44] <raven-Ron> Ron: LM I think that is being too
nice to pedophiles..
[21:44] <ayli> LAR^, no matter what the situation,
children learn by what they see.. weather it be abuse, or bdsm, or anything
out of their realm of ordinary.. they are going to ask questions.. and
if you answer dishonestly, you destroy thier trust in you.
[21:44] <LadyMist> agree eevennnnnnn...
[21:44] <EZRiser> yes ... but a bdsm relationship is
far different from an abusive one
[21:45] <ayli> yes, but how would a child know that,
if you didn't explain EZ?
[21:45] <raven-Ron> Ron: yes EZ..bdsm is different
from abuse, but in a child's eye they see bdsm and abuse and the line
between may not be clear..hell for some adults in BDSM the line isn't
clear
[21:45] <EZRiser> because a child can perceive the
difference between fear and respect
[21:45] <raven-Ron> raven: that's where communication
with the child is so important...
[21:45] <ayli> can they?
[21:46] <ayli> how can a child who is 3 4 5 6 years
old, define, mommy isn't screaming in fear/pain.. she's liking when
he hits her
[21:46] <raven-Ron> raven: not always EZ...
[21:46] <raven-Ron> a child is taught the difference
between fear and respect..
[21:47] <raven-Ron> ok...everyone has different ideas
on how to handle discussing bdsm with a child...but I think we can all
agree that communication is extremely important..correct?
[21:47] * ayli nods
[21:48] <LAR^> True, but what SORT of communcation?
[21:48] <EZRiser> has to be .. but it needs to be carried
out on the childs comprehension level
[21:48] <raven-Ron> I agree EZ..
[21:49] <raven-Ron> answering questions..being available
for the child to ask questions of..being approachable to the child..behind
honest (at their comprehension level) with the child, LAR
[21:49] <LAR^> OK, I can concur with that
[21:49] <raven-Ron> ok..so..what does it take for a
d/s relationship to flourish when there are children in the home?
[21:50] <LAR^> The same thing, communication and understanding
[21:50] <LAR^> And for us. finding subtle every day
things. We also need time AWAY from the kids. Like going to BR this
november
[21:50] <raven-Ron> raven: how about imagination?
[21:50] <raven-Ron> yes LAR
[21:50] <EZRiser> agreed ... and once a child is accustomed
to hearing rather strange noises from behind closed doors .. they accept
it ..
[21:51] <raven-Ron> Ron: All I ever heard when I was
growing up was country music!! hahaha
[21:51] * LAR^ DOES try and keep the spanking down to
a min, and elle tries not to scream or beg when child is awake
[21:51] <ayli> music is a good way to hide those strange
sounds..
[21:51] <raven-Ron> ok..my question focused more on
meeting the dom and sub's needs..in ways that are "kid friendly"..
[21:52] <raven-Ron> true ayli
[21:52] <raven-Ron> LAR use a gag :)
[21:52] <LAR^> I do, she can whimper very loudly
[21:54] <raven-Ron> raven: there are things that can
be done in front of children, that dont raise questions..
[21:55] <LAR^> OK, well there are certain things that
are subtle. Grabbing her hair as you kiss her. The occasional swat on
the bottom or discreet pinch of the nipples. Having her sit at your
feet while you watch TV. Or even as we do, where she will ask for permission
to leave my presence by saying: I have to go to the Bathroom. (Where
I will say,. OK pet)
[21:55] <raven-Ron> raven: examples: a dress code for
the sub..such as dresses no panties (can be long dresses)..certain jewelry..certain
hair styles...things like that..
[21:55] <raven-Ron> raven: yes..those all work LAR
[21:55] <EZRiser> a child wont recognize those subtle
things ..
[21:56] <LAR^> True, elle has her everyday collar which
nobody would know what it is but us. A saphire ring with diamonds, Gave
it to her when she accepted my collar. Also has a bracelet with a dog
tag that says spoiled on it
[21:56] <EZRiser> that is more a mental game tween
Dom & sub
[21:56] <raven-Ron> those are cool LAR
[21:56] <raven-Ron> raven: true EZ..but for many subs
those kinds of acts are essential to bieng/showing their service side..
[21:57] <EZRiser> agreed .. but the child wont know
it ...
[21:57] <raven-Ron> raven: for example..I cook dinner..I
serve the dom's plate first...it's a personal service thing I prefer
to do...then the kids' plates..then other adults..lastly myself..
[21:57] <raven-Ron> true EZ :)
[21:57] <LAR^> The hard thing is finding time to play
HARD as the children get older and more aware.
[21:57] <raven-Ron> soundproofing??
[21:57] <LAR^> What about when you tie her up and the
kid comes knocking at the door? Takes a bit to get those knots undone.
[21:57] <EZRiser> a dungeon .. ?
[21:58] * ayli laughs
[21:58] <raven-Ron> raven laughs because she's had
that happen with her tied to a spanking horse...or hung up in the garage...ohmy..ROFLMAO
[21:58] <ayli> cover her with a blanket.. and don't
let them in the room
[21:58] <LAR^> I keep elle naked in the bedroom too,
but at least I am a naturist so if he HAPPENS to see that it is no biggie
[21:58] <raven-Ron> that works ayli :)
[21:58] <raven-Ron> Ron makes plans to build second
house in backyard
[21:58] <raven-Ron> raven: a dungeon would be a good
thing...would have to lock it
[21:59] <EZRiser> fortunately .. basements are standard
fare up here .. & when I do buy .. it will have one ..
[22:00] <raven-Ron> raven: we don't have basements
here..too close to the water line..
[22:00] <raven-Ron> so what are soundproofing tips?
[22:02] <raven-Ron> raven: ok so..some soundproofing
ideas I've heard of are: corkboards...heavy fabric on the walls..cork
behind pictures..hardwood doors..thick carpet..white noise machines
(radios or stereos)...gags
[22:02] <LAR^> Ron: For soundproofing, I recommend
heavy quilts. They look pretty and you can hide cork panelling under
them
[22:02] <EZRiser> ok ...lets diverse a bit .. how bout
bringing D/s into a new relationship where kids are already there
[22:03] <raven-Ron> Ron: that would work LAR
[22:03] <Master_69> gags
[22:03] <AlstrBlck> for soundproofing basements, if
it's unfinished, put the material up BEHIND a planned panelling wall.
[22:03] <MsDMeanr> and I do so with DUNGEON IN MIND!
[22:03] <raven-Ron> yes..that's a good idea as well
AB..
[22:03] <raven-Ron> ok..brinigng d/s into a relationship
with a person who already has kids..
[22:04] <raven-Ron> well...first you have to deal with
the kids accepting the partner of their parent..
[22:04] <raven-Ron> then it's basically the same as
other relationsihps..be prepared to answer questions...don't be too
obvious..
[22:04] <raven-Ron> other d/s relationships..sorry..
[22:05] <raven-Ron> Ron: seeing daddy kiss the new
girlfriend or kiss his partner is one thing..seeing daddy pinch her
nipple is another
[22:05] <raven-Ron> raven: and if the kid asks..the
answer is "I wanted to and it's like a kiss, a love touch between us"
or something like that..
[22:06] <EZRiser> first off .. the children have to
become accustomed to a new body in the house, that the affection is
there where the saw none before .. it should make them comfortable
[22:07] <raven-Ron> yes EZ
[22:09] <raven-Ron> raven: what about keeping the signs
of affection to a minimum to start with..things like hugging and kissing..no
nipple pinching or stuff..until the child adjusts to seeing somene "love"
their mom or dad..
[22:09] <MsDMeanr> the problem in this house was not
someone "loving" mom . . .it was someone taking care of mom!
[22:09] <MsDMeanr> STILL hasn't got over it!
james is kewl, as long as he does not DO anything!
[22:09] <EZRiser> I agree to that .. it has to be .
. its enough for them just to see affection occuring again
[22:10] <ayli> basically, if you were in a vannilla
relationship.. you wouldn't let them see you french kissing your new
gf/bf.. why would you want them to see you twisting his/her nipples?
[22:10] <EZRiser> but if the previous relationship
was a vanilla one .. then not so subtle rules or changes can present
some unique opportunities for explanation
[22:11] <raven-Ron> raven: in the case of brinigng
a d/s relationship into a home where there are children already...wouldn't
it be best to keep the rules on the sub in place, maybe fewer rules
at first than to start vanilla then go d/s?
[22:13] <raven-Ron> Ron; no I don't think so..I think
it would be better to start vanilla then slowly go into it..the kids
will have questions, but if their questions are answered as they first
see it (as the rules increase) they won't really feel like they need
to question things too much becaue they will think they know the answer..
[22:19] <LAR^> OK, here is a tangent topic. How do
you decorate for our AHEM more physical interests without being obvious
to the kids
[22:19] <EZRiser> dueling floggers, LAR ?
[22:19] <raven-Ron> decorate what LAR?? people or the
hosue?
[22:19] <raven-Ron> house even
[22:19] <ayli> put hooks in the ceiling.. hang plants
on them during the day :)
[22:19] <LAR^> The house. I mean, I LOVE to tie elle
up, and would not mind setting up a bench or a swing. But how to do
it in such a way that it can be taken down quickly and hidden
[22:19] <raven-Ron> well..learn to hide things real
well..hanging plants are great for those eyebolts in the ceiling LAR
[22:20] <raven-Ron> ahhh..a sturdy coffee table makes
a good bench..
[22:20] <LAR^> That is the easy and obvious
[22:20] <MsD> so does the coffee table!
[22:20] <LAR^> THAT is the less obvious.
[22:20] <raven-Ron> removable ropes/cuffs for bondage
to the table..
[22:20] <LAR^> Keep in mind, I have it more difficult
with a 5'10" slave
[22:20] <MsD> erp
[22:20] <MsD> kitchen table!
[22:20] <MsD> (height is good!)
[22:20] <raven-Ron> the couch makes a great spanking
horse..bend the sub over the back..attaching rope/cuffs to the legs
underneath..
[22:20] <EZRiser> 250 lb capacity eyebolt in an overhead
beam for a 3lb plant .. bit of an overkill .. aint it?
[22:20] <MsD> I turn my kitchen into a dungeon when
my son goes to camp!
[22:20] <raven-Ron> a hope chest at the foot of the
bed can also be useful...
[22:21] <raven-Ron> Ron: hmmmmmmmm...oh it can can
it?
[22:21] <raven-Ron> raven: yes Ron
[22:21] <ayli> EZRiser... how do the kids know it's
overkill?
[22:21] <MsD> I put a HUGE hook in the ceiling, then
hung a lil chime on it. . .when folks ask, I say, "Feng Shue"
[22:21] <MsD> lol
[22:21] <MsD> they all tip their head, look at me and
go . . .that's nice!
[22:21] <MsD> rofl
[22:21] <LAR^> Feng Shui? good one
[22:21] <ayli> good idea MsD
[22:21] <MsD> it helps to be a bit TECHED!
[22:21] <MsD> lol
[22:21] <EZRiser> lol .. good chi .. ,g>
[22:22] <LadyDragn> what is Feng Shue???
[22:22] <MsD> well, how ever you spell it!
[22:22] <MsD> it is oriental art of balance and harmony
in the home
[22:22] <LadyDragn> ahhh...thank you....:)
[22:22] <raven-Ron> it's a way to place objects around
a house to bring emotional well bieng to those int eh house..
[22:22] <EZRiser> the focusing of energy points ..
[22:23] <raven-Ron> LOL Good one MsD
[22:23] <AlstrBlck> then hang the nipple clamps on
the wall, tell them your Feng Shue specialist says they have to be there.
<L>
[22:23] <raven-Ron> ROFL AB..that works
[22:23] <raven-Ron> Shui
[22:23] <MsD> I also took head board off the bed, and
I took the mirror out (pout)
[22:23] <raven-Ron> Feng Shui
[22:23] <Master_69> lol roach clips LOL
[22:23] <MsD> rofl
[22:23] <raven-Ron> Ron: LOLOL
[22:23] <raven-Ron> raven: LOLOL
[22:23] <MsD> they take you being a smoker better than
a kinkster?
[22:23] <AlstrBlck> hell, I got my riding crop and
horse and buggy whip hanging on the wall.
[22:23] <EZRiser> hand dream catchers from eboth ends
..
[22:24] <raven-Ron> raven: a sturdy straight back,
no armed chair can be put at a desk or dressing table in the bedroom..very
useful for bondage and spankings..
[22:24] <raven-Ron> raven tries to think of other non-obvious
furniture..
[22:25] <MsD> my son opened the package that had my
Morgan Whip in it . . . he said, "Mom? What is this?" I said,
It's for Dog mushing! I use it for relaxation and concentration . .
.wanna try?" He said YES! and now we both practice in the front
yard!
[22:25] <raven-Ron> ROFL MsD
[22:25] <LadyDragn> if the sub has nipple rings....you
could hang aligator clips on the wall holding things like pictures or
even a clued puzzle then when ready to play take down the picture or
what ever and clip the aligator clips to the nipple rings......be interesting
way to start....or I would thing....:)
[22:25] <Master_69> LOL cool
[22:25] <ayli> omg..
[22:25] <raven-Ron> Ron: very sturdy book case mounted
on the wall..good for bondage..
[22:26] <MsD> have only had one guy go off the road
lookin' at us!
[22:26] <raven-Ron> that would work dragn :)
[22:26] * Amax laughs
[22:26] * ayli can see the neighbors
[22:26] <LAR^> MsD, what a great sport together. Whip
cracking is a useful skill for many things.
[22:26] <AlstrBlck> Um, MsD.... when are you
planning on going dogmushing?
[22:26] <raven-Ron> LOL MsD
[22:26] <LAR^> Yo, teach I don't like this test *CRACK*
give me a better one
[22:26] <MsD> never! but he don't have to know that!
[22:26] <MsD> LOL
[22:26] <raven-Ron> LOLOL
[22:26] <LadyDragn> cuff the hands behind the sub.....ohh....nice
vizual I just gave myself....<smileing at raven>
[22:26] <AlstrBlck> better have a better answer ready
for when he asks then. <L>
[22:26] <raven-Ron> raven blushes and covers her peirced
nipples..
[22:28] <MsD> actually, son asked if he could show
his friends my whip
[22:28] <raven-Ron> Ron: ooooooooo..what did you say
then?
[22:28] <MsD> wanna make a domme stutter? ask to show
her whip in front of 10 13 year old boys!
[22:28] * MsD rolls her eyes
[22:28] <LAR^> ROFL
[22:28] <raven-Ron> raven ROFLMAO
[22:28] * ayli blinks.. ooogsoh
[22:28] <raven-Ron> Ron" ROFL
[22:29] <Master_69> LOLOL
[22:29] * Amax laughs some more...
[22:29] <LadyDragn> LOL
[22:29] <AlstrBlck> teach him to juggle and throw knives,
and you could rent him out to the circus.
[22:29] * MsDMeanr smiles
[22:29] <ayli> how the hell do you explain that to
their parents!?
[22:29] <EZRiser> I showed my son my latest whip ..
his gf asked if she could use it on him
[22:29] <MsDMeanr> exactly!
[22:29] <MsDMeanr> :)
[22:29] <raven-Ron> LOLOL EZ
[22:29] <MsDMeanr> rofl
[22:29] <MsDMeanr> oh man!
[22:29] <MsDMeanr> :)
[22:29] <ayli> oh.. sos and so's mommy showed us a
whip..
[22:29] <raven-Ron> Ron: oh shit EZ..
[22:29] <MsDMeanr> and with that, I am off too!
[22:29] <MsDMeanr> must have son finish lawns!