Presents:

BDSM Discussion  26

BDSM With Children In The Home

All Comments Posted Here With Permission Of The Participants

Session Start: Sun Jul 30 20:43:30 2000

[21:11] * raven-Ron says Hello and welcome to leather and roses' weekly discussions on BDSM the following rules apply..
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[21:11] <raven-Ron> Tonight's topic is BDSM with children in the home....
[21:12] <raven-Ron> How does having children affect a d/s relationship?
[21:12] <EZRiser> that would depend first on the extent of the relationship ... so define relationship .. 
[21:13] <raven-Ron> ok..for sake of argument...a d/s relationship being a comitted relationship with a collar...that the submissive defers to the dominant on almost everything...
[21:14] <raven-Ron> Ron: it puts it on the back burner sometimes because you can't do some things in front of children...
[21:14] <raven-Ron> raven: like what can't be done in front of children?
[21:14] <LadyMist> I think having children  can be very rewarding to the relationship...
[21:14] <raven-Ron> Ron: Lectures
[21:14] <raven-Ron> raven: depends on how the lecture is done Ron...
[21:14] <raven-Ron> how sow LM?
[21:14] <raven-Ron> be well tabi
[21:14] <LadyMist> anything that feels like "adult" interaction...
[21:15] <LadyMist> I think children benefit from leanring how a chain of command works...
[21:15] <raven-Ron> yes..I agree LM..
[21:15] <LadyMist> mommy defers to daddy...opr visa versa...
[21:15] <LadyMist> as daddy defers to Mr policeman..
[21:15] <EZRiser> they see that in a d/s or vanilla relationship .. 
[21:15] <LadyMist> and Mr judge...
[21:15] <raven-Ron> is it really that different to have a female sub defering to her dom than a wife deferring to her husband like they did almost all the time 50 years or so ago?
[21:15] <raven-Ron> yes EZ
[21:15] <LadyMist> I think it bring it home more in a D/s relationship...
[21:16] <raven-Ron> Ron: Yes because it is not 50 years ago..kids see sitcoms and other relationships and wonder why yours is different..
[21:16] <EZRiser> tho in a vanilla .. its more a give and take .. 
[21:16] <LadyMist> it is different... in that... there are daddy deferring to mommies..
[21:16] <LadyMist> mommies deferring to mommies..
[21:16] <raven-Ron> raven: well, couldn't you just explain that every relationship is different and that you like yours that way?
[21:16] <raven-Ron> true LM
[21:16] <ayli> makes it harder?
[21:16] <ayli> have to hide things you wouldn't if there were no children
[21:16] <ayli> have to be quiet
[21:16] <ayli> certainly can't order your sub to run around naked all day
[21:16] <LadyMist> more than one mommy in the house... <-- like my house...
[21:16] <raven-Ron> true ayli
[21:16] <LadyMist> depends on the house...
[21:17] <LadyMist> and the parnets feelings on nuduty...
[21:17] <raven-Ron> Ron: damn..naked subbie would be good
[21:17] <LadyMist> many don't see nudity = sexulaity..
[21:17] <raven-Ron> Ron: true..but that would be if the kids grew up with it..what if a couple decides to pursue it when the kids grew up to say age 10 to 14 without it..
[21:18] <LadyMist> thankfully I don't have to make that decision... I think it would be more difficult...
[21:18] <ayli> is it a healthy thing to teach children though
[21:18] <raven-Ron> raven is glad she isn't the only one tied to a chair tonight..
[21:18] <LadyMist> healthy?  that one can be accepted no matter how different one feels?
[21:19] <EZRiser> works both ways .. one can be casual about nudity until the kids reach a certain age .. then the casualness disappears as the kids become more aware of their own sexuality
[21:19] <raven-Ron> raven: I think a great number of things can indeed be done in front of children, without any harm to the children or their natural development..
[21:19] <LadyMist> we teach them that vanilla is ok...why not   the other?
[21:19] <LAR^> Raven: Children in the home, Children in the relationship, or Children around in general
[21:19] <ayli> I just mean.. is it healthy.. to show your child.. that one parent always defers to the other
[21:19] <raven-Ron> raven: however, I think it requires the parents to be more available and open with their children to answer questions and foster the belief that being different is not something to be afraid of or to despise in others..
[21:19] <raven-Ron> raven: and to foster a belief that there can indeed be many different types of relationships...that a person has to choose for themselves what they are happiest with..
[21:19] <LadyMist> as long as you tell them that other relationshiops work in other ways...
[21:20] <raven-Ron> Lar: Children living in the house with a d/s couple (married or not)
[21:20] * LAR^ notes that all his kid sees is Dad being a gentleman to his lady. We keep most of the D/s subtle around him. IF at all
[21:20] <raven-Ron> Ron: Lar, that was raven's diatribe
[21:20] <LadyMist>  they see the differences when they sociualize with other children...
[21:20] <LadyMist> I am sure he gets it...most children do...
[21:20] <raven-Ron> I can understand that EZ..about the nudity...personally, I couldn't parade around naked in front of my kids...but I certainly don't freak out if they walk in while I'm changing or something..
[21:21] <raven-Ron> good point LM..we do teach that vanilla is OK..and I think we should teach that all are ok..not just vanilla
[21:21] <LadyMist> exactly...
[21:21] <EZRiser> but if a child is comfortable with what they grow up with .. whats normal for a given hosehold is normal for the child .. 
[21:21] <LAR^> elle: Why do they even have to know the difference between vanilla and BDSM?
[21:21] <raven-Ron> raven: would you say that it is neccessary for a parent involved in BDSM, to be more open to communication with their child?
[21:21] <ayli> they will notice it all by themselves
[21:21] <raven-Ron> true EZ
[21:21] <EZRiser> if one is accustomed to it .. when they dont see it .. they perceive it as abnormal
[21:21] <raven-Ron> Ron waves at elle
[21:22] <raven-Ron> true as well EZ
[21:22] <ayli> other families they visit... won't be Like mommy and daddy.. and they are going to ask questions.. and kids to ask the hardest questions
[21:22] <LAR^> elle: Isn't that soemthing that they should come to terms with on their own and if they are old enough and responsible enough to handle it...mature enough... then tell them if they question?
[21:22] <raven-Ron> ayli makes a good point..kids are very observant..they will notice fairly quickly that thier parents are not "normal" by others' standards...
[21:22] * ayli wouldn't say anything if they didn't question.. but should be honest when they do
[21:22] <LadyMist> they see power exchanges in every relationship...even the one they have with siblings....
[21:23] <LadyMist> so extending it.. into equality...or inequality isn't a prblem...
[21:23] <LAR^> elle: but the question i am asking is why would you even use the term "bdsm" to a child? so they're observant? simply tell them that relationships all work different and this is how your parents chose to interact with each other...to us, we define that to Master's child as Master being a gentleman to me...
[21:23] <raven-Ron> raven: that is a personal decision elle, but for me, I have found that answering my daughter's questions as they arise instead of telling her "when you're older" has worked wonders for me..she is alot more accepting of things than many kids her age...
[21:23] <LadyMist> I haven't said to use the acronym BDSM...
[21:23] <LadyMist> deference works wonders...
[21:23] <raven-Ron> raven: yes elle..that is what I said a little bit ago...but eventually the kid will ask questions like "Why did daddy spank you?" ..
[21:23] <raven-Ron> or "did you like it when daddy spanked you?"
[21:23] <LadyMist> Along with the "when you are older argument..."
[21:24] <EZRiser> and the correct answer is 'yes'
[21:24] <raven-Ron> raven <sigh> unfortunately LM, I never had the luxury of using the "when you were older argument with my daughter.. 
[21:24] <LadyMist> when is a child exposed to dfaddy spanking mommy?
[21:24] <raven-Ron> noise travels LM..and kids are nosey..
[21:24] <LadyMist> I can see accidents...
[21:24] <ayli> they Can hear LadyMist..
[21:24] <ayli> and they do walk in..
[21:24] <LadyMist> LOL
[21:24] <LAR^> elle: for us that just isn't a quesiton that would come up - due to circumstances that arose with Master's x-wife... Kevin would never see Master spanking me or otherwise
[21:24] <LadyMist> mine sleep like the dead...
[21:24] <LadyMist> and we do go to parties...
[21:24] * ayli giggles..
[21:24] <raven-Ron> not neccessarily see you elle...hear you play..
[21:25] <LAR^> elle: we wait until he is alseep or find something else for him to be doing a night that we choose to play..or we go out.
[21:25] <LadyMist> I am not going to let them see or hear "play" to me... that is equivalent to sex...
[21:25] <Master_69> I think being honest when a child ask why you spanked mommy is always best way, if you  feel there old enought to understand whats going on you may as well just give it to them straight :)
[21:25] <ayli> accidents happen
[21:25] <raven-Ron> raven: that's a good way to handle it..but be prepared for an "accident" elle..it does and will happen..
[21:25] <ayli> and why not be honest when they do question?
[21:25] <raven-Ron> raven: I agree Master69...
[21:25] <LadyMist> Not here...LOL...we haven't done crap while chensay's mom has been in town...
[21:25] <LadyMist> longest month of my liofe...
[21:25] <raven-Ron> Ron: LOL LM
[21:25] <LAR^> elle: but then again, it is like you said...on the off chance that there is some type of accident where he sees or hears us...if he is mature enough to ask, he deserves a decent answer.
[21:25] <raven-Ron> raven: LOL LM
[21:26] <raven-Ron> Ron; yes he does if he's mature enough to handle it
[21:26] <raven-Ron> raven: doesn't that raise the whole tailor the answer to the child's age thing?
[21:26] <LadyMist> yes
[21:26] <raven-Ron> raven: I mean come on, when discussing where babies come from with children, don't you tailor the answer to just the exact question the child asked, with the response being at their age level?
[21:26] <LadyMist> yes
[21:27] <ayli> thats fairly easy.. at four.. mommy didn't do what she was told.. so daddy spanked her.. just like he does when your bad.. at thirteen.. that ain't gonna fly
[21:27] <raven-Ron> raven: so, if a child hears a spanking or other play noise...lets say the child is 7..and asks "What was that noise mommy?"..the answer could be.."Daddy and I were playing around" ...
[21:27] <LadyMist> I agree.,,,
[21:27] <raven-Ron> Ron: taht true ayli..
[21:27] <LAR^> elle: i think that the biggest problem with kids in the house is having toys around...i know that when i was a kid i rooted in EVERYTHING my parents had..my mom was a "squirreler" in that she hid important stuff (like candy!)
[21:27] <raven-Ron> raven; with such an answer..there is no lie, but the child gets the answer they want..
[21:27] <EZRiser> and if that spanking is done as punishment .. is that still playing around?
[21:27] <LadyMist> that's what locks are for..
[21:28] <raven-Ron> raven: this is true..be prepared to tell what those toys are for...kids will find it..no matter where you hide it..
[21:28] <raven-Ron> Ron: So how do you hide the toys?
[21:28] <LadyMist> :"adult stuff"
[21:28] <LAR^> raven: you ahve to be careful tho even with something like "we were playing around" because there are some kids that will try to play with their playmates in the same way...
[21:28] <raven-Ron> raven: you can lock them up..but kids will find them..no matter where you put them...
[21:28] <LadyMist> like adult words adult drinks...
[21:28] <LadyMist> adult movies...
[21:28] <ayli> they will try to play with thier playmates that way Anyways
[21:28] <raven-Ron> true LAR, but if they are natural dom/sub/sadist/masochist..they'll do it anyway.. :)
[21:28] <LadyMist> adult....this and that and when YOU are an adult..guess what?
[21:28] <EZRiser> we all knew where dad hid the playboys .. 
[21:28] <LadyMist> you can do it too...
[21:28] <raven-Ron> there ya go LM..
[21:28] <ayli> children are naturally curious..
[21:28] <raven-Ron> true EZ
[21:29] <raven-Ron> raven: with my toys, I've always put the whips in the closet (so I don't have to fold them) and everything else in my hopse chest...my daughter of course found them..and I had to explain what they were..
[21:29] <ayli> I don't think it will damage them in any way.. but I do think hiding every aspect of the adults lives will.. 
[21:29] <LAR^> LM: i know that is what locks are for...but if a kid REALLY wants to get into your stuff, they're going to get into it...
[21:29] <LadyMist> I knew in third grade I was different...and that my parents wouldn't approve even when they were renting "Sorty of O"
[21:29] <raven-Ron> raven: my original answer..those are adult toys...but as time went on..she got older...and asked what are they for..I told her the truth..
[21:29] <LadyMist> not if they are supervied...
[21:30] <LadyMist> My pet peeve...my apoloigies...
[21:30] * ayli giggles
[21:30] <EZRiser> you cant do that 24/7 LM
[21:30] <LadyMist> my children don't have the time to get "into " stuff..
[21:30] <LadyMist> I am a stay at home slut...I can...
[21:30] <raven-Ron> raven: LM..supervised or not...kids will get into stuff they aren't supposed to...when mommy goes out and the kids have a babysitter..the babysiter is on the phone, kid sneaks out of bed and roots around in mommy's room...
[21:30] <ayli> uhmm.. LadyMist.. even the most observant parent.. isn't going to know every single thing a child does every minute of the day
[21:30] <raven-Ron> Ron: LOL that works..
[21:30] <LadyMist> and leave them with people who I trust...they might get into stuff else where but not in my home...
[21:30] <ayli> they tend to be very very sneaky.. and quiet.. when they want to be
[21:31] * LAR^ has always followed the rule that you may ask anything you like, as long as you are willing to hear the answer, In the case of children they must be old enough to frame the question.
[21:31] <raven-Ron> yanno LM..my mom used to say the same thing..and I saw everything she tried to hide.. LOLOL
[21:31] <raven-Ron> but then again..I am a sneaky kid..
[21:31] <LadyMist> LOL... and they don't spend more then three minutes alone when they are quiet...
[21:31] <raven-Ron> raven: good guideline Lar
[21:31] <LadyMist> and they know...if you want me to respect YOUR privacy... you must respect mine...
[21:32] <LadyMist> you don't go through my room... I don't enter yours without knocking...etc...
[21:32] <EZRiser> LM .. want to trade kids?
[21:32] <ayli> hwo old are your children LadyMist?
[21:32] <LadyMist> Nope..I have worked HARD on mine...
[21:32] <raven-Ron> sounds like you did a good job LM :)
[21:32] <LadyMist> 9 6 3 2 ... young enough to still be trained...
[21:32] <LadyMist> thank you...
[21:32] <raven-Ron> unforunately not every child is like that..so one must be prepared to handle the discoveries a prospecting child will find...
[21:32] * LAR^ has warmed the occasional bottom for failure to respect that rule. Friends kid, who used to live more at my house than her own
[21:32] <LadyMist> the three year old is chensays...
[21:33] <raven-Ron> What are some ways d/s can be done in front of children?
[21:34] <ayli> brb
[21:34] <LAR^> Then again when she asked about what she found, I told her it was private and taht if she really wanted to know, she should wait and ask me again in a week
[21:34] * LadyMist likes that...and has done it with the parental units...
[21:34] <LadyMist> all D/s that is not sexual I think is safe in frount of littles...
[21:35] <raven-Ron> raven: like what LM? 
[21:35] <LadyMist> they don't think anything of an extra person on the floor with the...
[21:35] <LadyMist> them...
[21:35] <EZRiser> and a child would perceive that response as 'its not really any of your business, & I am not going to talk about it ..'
[21:35] <raven-Ron> raven nods..
[21:35] <LadyMist> they don't think anything about mommy getting daddy a drink when she gets all of their.s...
[21:35] <LadyMist> anything you are comfortable doing...they will not get a begative feed offa...
[21:35] * LAR^ notes that for some of elle's rules she looks towards me, and asks with her eyes (I.E. when she needs to get out of the car and can not wait for me to open the door for her)
[21:35] <raven-Ron> Ron: or kneeling at daddy's feet
[21:36] <raven-Ron> raven: yes...body language can relay alot..silently <g>
[21:36] <LadyMist> and believe me..they pick up on all of it...
[21:36] *** chance- is on IRC
[21:36] <raven-Ron> yes they do LM
[21:36] <raven-Ron> but those things are not considered as "harmful" to kids...and are easily explained, while still maintaining the mental power exchange..
[21:36] <LadyMist> Donovan was terrified when his father dunked me at the pool... cause I was HONESTLY trying NOT to get dunked...
[21:37] <LadyMist> he thought daddy was hurting me...
[21:37] <raven-Ron> Ron: yup
[21:37] <raven-Ron> Ron: specially when the submissive is female, children will be protective of their mother..
[21:37] <raven-Ron> raven: ain't that the truth!!
[21:38] * ayli laughs
[21:38] <LadyMist> yep...and I had to reassure him that I was fine...
[21:38] <LadyMist> just playing...
[21:38] <ayli> MOOOOOOM> I KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING IN THERE
[21:38] <raven-Ron> raven shakes her head and sighs..my 12 yr old thinks she is my personal body guard..
[21:38] <raven-Ron> LOLOLOLOL
[21:38] * ayli laughs
[21:38] <LadyMist> like he does with his daddy..
[21:38] <raven-Ron> raven: yes LM
[21:38] <raven-Ron> raven: but again..communication with the child can solve the problem..
[21:38] <LadyMist> but it is up to you to let her know she is not responsible for protecting you...
[21:39] <raven-Ron> raven: i have told her repeatedly LM...but there are extenuating circumstances that make her think I need protecting..and maybe she's not so wrong in that..
[21:39] <LadyMist> 'G'  I can imagine...
[21:39] <EZRiser> thats a childs natural tendency tho .. they wont ignore anything that they consider out of the ordinary
[21:39] <LadyMist> I only worry that the added power that the feeling of responsibility gives children robs them of "childhoos"
[21:39] <LadyMist> childhood...
[21:40] <raven-Ron> raven: she just doesn't want to see me emotionally/mentally hurt/broken again is all...problem is she blames that on d/s..so tries to protect me from it..
[21:40] <raven-Ron> true EZ
[21:40] <raven-Ron> Ron: hell they'll focus on what's out of the ordinary..
[21:40] <LadyMist> but she is the child...
[21:40] <LAR^> LM: You hit it right, but children DO notice when Mommy or Daddy is hurting. Even in nilla relationships. My niece cried when her Mommy was upset by her grandparents. Even though her Dad and I were there to help my sister, she took it on herself to tell her mom. I won't stand by and let them hurt you even if I never see them again
[21:40] <raven-Ron> raven: well LM, that is a good point....however, kids didn't always have 18 years of being a child...but that's a whole nother topic..
[21:40] <LadyMist> not her realm of responsibility...(last somment I promise...)
[21:40] <ayli> some children, can not help but feel responsible, and there is nothing really that you can do, other then try and reasure them about that particular thing.. they will just move on to the next thing 
[21:41] <EZRiser> child or not .. they will take to defensive for the one they feel is threatened
[21:41] <LAR^> Raven, is the 12 YO the oldest?
[21:41] <raven-Ron> raven: yes LM she is the child..but even a child is not blind to the devestating afffects of an abusive relationship...make that a 24/7 m/s relationship and it is even worse
[21:41] <LadyMist> Then they don't need to know about "adult" things...
[21:41] <ayli> you Can't stop that
[21:41] <raven-Ron> raven: not anymore LAR..I seem to have been gifted with a 16 yr old and an 11 yr old..
[21:41] <LadyMist> <-- aside from abuse...that is another realm entirely...
[21:41] <ayli> you can do your best, but you can not stop them from learning..
[21:41] <raven-Ron> Ron: cursed maybe..not gifted
[21:41] <LAR^> LOL, I meant your oldest
[21:41] <EZRiser> LOL Ron
[21:41] <raven-Ron> raven giggles..yes...she is my oldest ...my youngest is 4
[21:42] <raven-Ron> In some cases LM, they do need to know..as in my case with my daughter..I had no choice but to be totally honest with her when she asked questions..
[21:42] <raven-Ron> and she started it by asking if it was allright to daydream about being spanked..when she was 8
[21:42] <LadyMist> no choice?  why not?
[21:42] <LadyMist> what did that have to sdo with you?
[21:42] <LAR^> ayli: That is a true reality, and telling them otherwise is not the answer. A child of a divorce where one partner is abusive, is going to see it as THEIR responsibility to protect the other parent, for fear of losing them
[21:43] <raven-Ron> raven: history of sexual abuse..makes my daughter more knowledgeable than she should have been..and alot more curious than her age normally is...starting at 5
[21:43] <LadyMist> yucka...
[21:43] <raven-Ron> it didn't...it was her daydream and she thought she was "crazy" for having it..so she asked me for reassurance..I told her, no it is not bad..
[21:43] <LadyMist> I think all pedophiles should be drawn and quartered...
[21:43] <raven-Ron> LAR: they either get protective, or they velcro themselves to your leg
[21:44] <LadyMist> there is a difference?
[21:44] <LAR^> Personally, I would much rather be honest, WITHOUT going into personal detail. This way the child grows up with a healthy relationship
[21:44] <LadyMist> I agress...
[21:44] <raven-Ron> Ron: LM I think that is being too nice to pedophiles..
[21:44] <ayli> LAR^, no matter what the situation, children learn by what they see.. weather it be abuse, or bdsm, or anything out of their realm of ordinary.. they are going to ask questions.. and if you answer dishonestly, you destroy thier trust in you.
[21:44] <LadyMist> agree eevennnnnnn...
[21:44] <EZRiser> yes ... but a bdsm relationship is far different from an abusive one
[21:45] <ayli> yes, but how would a child know that, if you didn't explain EZ?
[21:45] <raven-Ron> Ron: yes EZ..bdsm is different from abuse, but in a child's eye they see bdsm and abuse and the line between may not be clear..hell for some adults in BDSM the line isn't clear
[21:45] <EZRiser> because a child can perceive the difference between fear and respect
[21:45] <raven-Ron> raven: that's where communication with the child is so important...
[21:45] <ayli> can they?
[21:46] <ayli> how can a child who is 3 4 5 6 years old, define, mommy isn't screaming in fear/pain.. she's liking when he hits her
[21:46] <raven-Ron> raven: not always EZ...
[21:46] <raven-Ron> a child is taught the difference between fear and respect..
[21:47] <raven-Ron> ok...everyone has different ideas on how to handle discussing bdsm with a child...but I think we can all agree that communication is extremely important..correct?
[21:47] * ayli nods
[21:48] <LAR^> True, but what SORT of communcation?
[21:48] <EZRiser> has to be .. but it needs to be carried out on the childs comprehension level
[21:48] <raven-Ron> I agree EZ..
[21:49] <raven-Ron> answering questions..being available for the child to ask questions of..being approachable to the child..behind honest (at their comprehension level) with the child, LAR
[21:49] <LAR^> OK, I can concur with that
[21:49] <raven-Ron> ok..so..what does it take for a d/s relationship to flourish when there are children in the home?
[21:50] <LAR^> The same thing, communication and understanding
[21:50] <LAR^> And for us. finding subtle every day things. We also need time AWAY from the kids. Like going to BR this november
[21:50] <raven-Ron> raven: how about imagination?
[21:50] <raven-Ron> yes LAR
[21:50] <EZRiser> agreed ... and once a child is accustomed to hearing rather strange noises from behind closed doors .. they accept it .. 
[21:51] <raven-Ron> Ron: All I ever heard when I was growing up was country music!! hahaha
[21:51] * LAR^ DOES try and keep the spanking down to a min, and elle tries not to scream or beg when child is awake
[21:51] <ayli> music is a good way to hide those strange sounds..
[21:51] <raven-Ron> ok..my question focused more on meeting the dom and sub's needs..in ways that are "kid friendly"..
[21:52] <raven-Ron> true ayli
[21:52] <raven-Ron> LAR use a gag :)
[21:52] <LAR^> I do, she can whimper very loudly
[21:54] <raven-Ron> raven: there are things that can be done in front of children, that dont raise questions..
[21:55] <LAR^> OK, well there are certain things that are subtle. Grabbing her hair as you kiss her. The occasional swat on the bottom or discreet pinch of the nipples. Having her sit at your feet while you watch TV. Or even as we do, where she will ask for permission to leave my presence by saying: I have to go to the Bathroom. (Where I will say,. OK pet)
[21:55] <raven-Ron> raven: examples: a dress code for the sub..such as dresses no panties (can be long dresses)..certain jewelry..certain hair styles...things like that..
[21:55] <raven-Ron> raven: yes..those all work LAR
[21:55] <EZRiser> a child wont recognize those subtle things .. 
[21:56] <LAR^> True, elle has her everyday collar which nobody would know what it is but us. A saphire ring with diamonds, Gave it to her when she accepted my collar. Also has a bracelet with a dog tag that says spoiled on it
[21:56] <EZRiser> that is more a mental game tween Dom & sub
[21:56] <raven-Ron> those are cool LAR
[21:56] <raven-Ron> raven: true EZ..but for many subs those kinds of acts are essential to bieng/showing their service side..
[21:57] <EZRiser> agreed .. but the child wont know it ... 
[21:57] <raven-Ron> raven: for example..I cook dinner..I serve the dom's plate first...it's a personal service thing I prefer to do...then the kids' plates..then other adults..lastly myself..
[21:57] <raven-Ron> true EZ :)
[21:57] <LAR^> The hard thing is finding time to play HARD as the children get older and more aware. 
[21:57] <raven-Ron> soundproofing??
[21:57] <LAR^> What about when you tie her up and the kid comes knocking at the door? Takes a bit to get those knots undone.
[21:57] <EZRiser> a dungeon .. ?
[21:58] * ayli laughs
[21:58] <raven-Ron> raven laughs because she's had that happen with her tied to a spanking horse...or hung up in the garage...ohmy..ROFLMAO
[21:58] <ayli> cover her with a blanket.. and don't let them in the room
[21:58] <LAR^> I keep elle naked in the bedroom too, but at least I am a naturist so if he HAPPENS to see that it is no biggie
[21:58] <raven-Ron> that works ayli :)
[21:58] <raven-Ron> Ron makes plans to build second house in backyard
[21:58] <raven-Ron> raven: a dungeon would be a good thing...would have to lock it
[21:59] <EZRiser> fortunately .. basements are standard fare up here .. & when I do buy .. it will have one .. 
[22:00] <raven-Ron> raven: we don't have basements here..too close to the water line..
[22:00] <raven-Ron> so what are soundproofing tips?
[22:02] <raven-Ron> raven: ok so..some soundproofing ideas I've heard of are: corkboards...heavy fabric on the walls..cork behind pictures..hardwood doors..thick carpet..white noise machines (radios or stereos)...gags
[22:02] <LAR^> Ron: For soundproofing, I recommend heavy quilts. They look pretty and you can hide cork panelling under them
[22:02] <EZRiser> ok ...lets diverse a bit .. how bout bringing D/s into a new relationship where kids are already there
[22:03] <raven-Ron> Ron: that would work LAR
[22:03] <Master_69> gags  
[22:03] <AlstrBlck> for soundproofing basements, if it's unfinished, put the material up BEHIND a planned panelling wall.
[22:03] <MsDMeanr> and I do so with DUNGEON IN MIND!
[22:03] <raven-Ron> yes..that's a good idea as well AB..
[22:03] <raven-Ron> ok..brinigng d/s into a relationship with a person who already has kids..
[22:04] <raven-Ron> well...first you have to deal with the kids accepting the partner of their parent..
[22:04] <raven-Ron> then it's basically the same as other relationsihps..be prepared to answer questions...don't be too obvious..
[22:04] <raven-Ron> other d/s relationships..sorry..
[22:05] <raven-Ron> Ron: seeing daddy kiss the new girlfriend or kiss his partner is one thing..seeing daddy pinch her nipple is another
[22:05] <raven-Ron> raven: and if the kid asks..the answer is "I wanted to and it's like a kiss, a love touch between us" or something like that..
[22:06] <EZRiser> first off .. the children have to become accustomed to a new body in the house, that the affection is there where the saw none before .. it should make them comfortable
[22:07] <raven-Ron> yes EZ
[22:09] <raven-Ron> raven: what about keeping the signs of affection to a minimum to start with..things like hugging and kissing..no nipple pinching or stuff..until the child adjusts to seeing somene "love" their mom or dad..
[22:09] <MsDMeanr> the problem in this house was not someone "loving" mom . . .it was someone taking care of mom!
[22:09] <MsDMeanr> STILL hasn't got over it!  james is kewl, as long as he does not DO anything!
[22:09] <EZRiser> I agree to that .. it has to be . . its enough for them just to see affection occuring again
[22:10] <ayli> basically, if you were in a vannilla relationship.. you wouldn't let them see you french kissing your new gf/bf.. why would you want them to see you twisting his/her nipples?
[22:10] <EZRiser> but if the previous relationship was a vanilla one .. then not so subtle rules or changes can present some unique opportunities for explanation
[22:11] <raven-Ron> raven: in the case of brinigng  a d/s relationship into a home where there are children already...wouldn't it be best to keep the rules on the sub in place, maybe fewer rules at first than to start vanilla then go d/s?
[22:13] <raven-Ron> Ron; no I don't think so..I think it would be better to start vanilla then slowly go into it..the kids will have questions, but if their questions are answered as they first see it (as the rules increase) they won't really feel like they need to question things too much becaue they will think they know the answer..
[22:19] <LAR^> OK, here is a tangent topic. How do you decorate for our AHEM more physical interests without being obvious to the kids
[22:19] <EZRiser> dueling floggers, LAR ?
[22:19] <raven-Ron> decorate what LAR?? people or the hosue?
[22:19] <raven-Ron> house even
[22:19] <ayli> put hooks in the ceiling.. hang plants on them during the day :)
[22:19] <LAR^> The house. I mean, I LOVE to tie elle up, and would not mind setting up a bench or a swing. But how to do it in such a way that it can be taken down quickly and hidden
[22:19] <raven-Ron> well..learn to hide things real well..hanging plants are great for those eyebolts in the ceiling LAR
[22:20] <raven-Ron> ahhh..a sturdy coffee table makes a good bench..
[22:20] <LAR^> That is the easy and obvious
[22:20] <MsD> so does the coffee table!
[22:20] <LAR^> THAT is the less obvious.
[22:20] <raven-Ron> removable ropes/cuffs for bondage to the table..
[22:20] <LAR^> Keep in mind, I have it more difficult with a 5'10" slave
[22:20] <MsD> erp
[22:20] <MsD> kitchen table!
[22:20] <MsD> (height is good!)
[22:20] <raven-Ron> the couch makes a great spanking horse..bend the sub over the back..attaching rope/cuffs to the legs underneath..
[22:20] <EZRiser> 250 lb capacity eyebolt in an overhead beam for a 3lb plant .. bit of an overkill .. aint it?
[22:20] <MsD> I turn my kitchen into a dungeon when my son goes to camp!
[22:20] <raven-Ron> a hope chest at the foot of the bed can also be useful...
[22:21] <raven-Ron> Ron: hmmmmmmmm...oh it can can it?
[22:21] <raven-Ron> raven: yes Ron
[22:21] <ayli> EZRiser... how do the kids know it's overkill?
[22:21] <MsD> I put a HUGE hook in the ceiling, then hung a lil chime on it. . .when folks ask, I say, "Feng Shue"
[22:21] <MsD> lol
[22:21] <MsD> they all tip their head, look at me and go . . .that's nice!
[22:21] <MsD> rofl
[22:21] <LAR^> Feng Shui? good one
[22:21] <ayli> good idea MsD
[22:21] <MsD> it helps to be a bit TECHED!
[22:21] <MsD> lol
[22:21] <EZRiser> lol .. good chi .. ,g>
[22:22] <LadyDragn> what is Feng Shue???
[22:22] <MsD> well, how ever you spell it!
[22:22] <MsD> it is oriental art of balance and harmony in the home
[22:22] <LadyDragn> ahhh...thank you....:)
[22:22] <raven-Ron> it's a way to place objects around a house to bring emotional well bieng to those int eh house..
[22:22] <EZRiser> the focusing of energy points .. 
[22:23] <raven-Ron> LOL Good one MsD
[22:23] <AlstrBlck> then hang the nipple clamps on the wall, tell them your Feng Shue specialist says they have to be there. <L>
[22:23] <raven-Ron> ROFL AB..that works
[22:23] <raven-Ron> Shui
[22:23] <MsD> I also took head board off the bed, and I took the mirror out (pout)
[22:23] <raven-Ron> Feng Shui
[22:23] <Master_69> lol roach clips   LOL
[22:23] <MsD> rofl
[22:23] <raven-Ron> Ron: LOLOL
[22:23] <raven-Ron> raven: LOLOL
[22:23] <MsD> they take you being a smoker better than a kinkster?
[22:23] <AlstrBlck> hell, I got my riding crop and horse and buggy whip hanging on the wall.
[22:23] <EZRiser> hand dream catchers from eboth ends .. 
[22:24] <raven-Ron> raven: a sturdy straight back, no armed chair can be put at a desk or dressing table in the bedroom..very useful for bondage and spankings..
[22:24] <raven-Ron> raven tries to think of other non-obvious furniture..
[22:25] <MsD> my son opened the package that had my Morgan Whip in it . . . he said, "Mom? What is this?"  I said, It's for Dog mushing! I use it for relaxation and concentration . . .wanna try?"  He said YES! and now we both practice in the front yard!
[22:25] <raven-Ron> ROFL MsD
[22:25] <LadyDragn> if the sub has nipple rings....you could hang aligator clips on the wall holding things like pictures or even a clued puzzle then when ready to play take down the picture or what ever and clip the aligator clips to the nipple rings......be interesting way to start....or I would thing....:)
[22:25] <Master_69> LOL cool
[22:25] <ayli> omg..
[22:25] <raven-Ron> Ron: very sturdy book case mounted on the wall..good for bondage..
[22:26] <MsD> have only had one guy go off the road lookin' at us!
[22:26] <raven-Ron> that would work dragn :)
[22:26] * Amax laughs
[22:26] * ayli can see the neighbors
[22:26] <LAR^> MsD, what a great sport together. Whip cracking is a useful skill for many things.
[22:26] <AlstrBlck> Um, MsD....  when are you planning on going dogmushing?
[22:26] <raven-Ron> LOL MsD
[22:26] <LAR^> Yo, teach I don't like this test *CRACK* give me a better one
[22:26] <MsD> never! but he don't have to know that!
[22:26] <MsD> LOL
[22:26] <raven-Ron> LOLOL
[22:26] <LadyDragn> cuff the hands behind the sub.....ohh....nice vizual I just gave myself....<smileing at raven>
[22:26] <AlstrBlck> better have a better answer ready for when he asks then. <L>
[22:26] <raven-Ron> raven blushes and covers her peirced nipples..
[22:28] <MsD> actually, son asked if he could show his friends my whip
[22:28] <raven-Ron> Ron: ooooooooo..what did you say then?
[22:28] <MsD> wanna make a domme stutter? ask to show her whip in front of 10 13 year old boys!
[22:28] * MsD rolls her eyes
[22:28] <LAR^> ROFL
[22:28] <raven-Ron> raven ROFLMAO
[22:28] * ayli blinks.. ooogsoh
[22:28] <raven-Ron> Ron" ROFL
[22:29] <Master_69> LOLOL
[22:29] * Amax laughs some more...
[22:29] <LadyDragn> LOL
[22:29] <AlstrBlck> teach him to juggle and throw knives, and you could rent him out to the circus.
[22:29] * MsDMeanr smiles
[22:29] <ayli> how the hell do you explain that to their parents!?
[22:29] <EZRiser> I showed my son my latest whip .. his gf asked if she could use it on him
[22:29] <MsDMeanr> exactly!
[22:29] <MsDMeanr> :)
[22:29] <raven-Ron> LOLOL EZ
[22:29] <MsDMeanr> rofl
[22:29] <MsDMeanr> oh man!
[22:29] <MsDMeanr> :)
[22:29] <ayli> oh.. sos and so's mommy showed us a whip..
[22:29] <raven-Ron> Ron: oh shit EZ..
[22:29] <MsDMeanr> and with that, I am off too!
[22:29] <MsDMeanr> must have son finish lawns!

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