Discussion 6: Valentines Day & Love

Session Start: Sun Feb 14 19:38:40 1999
[19:48] *** ravnshad changes topic to '18+ BDSM Discussion tonight.."Valentine's Day" ..HAPPY V-DAY ALL!!!'
[19:48] <^Ming> Are you having a discussin tonight raven?
[19:48] <ravnshad> yes Sir..
[19:48] <^Ming> lol
[19:48] <ravnshad> but tonight's is more for fun than anything else.. :)
[19:48] <ravnshad> going to talk about things that can be done as "treats" for Valentines day
[19:48] <^Ming> beat me to it
[19:48] * ravnshad giggles
[19:48] * chensay likes treats
[19:48] <ravnshad> I figured not many would show up because it was V-Day
[19:49] <Bugs42`> what do you think they might be doing raven?
[19:49] <leeendah> I tried to be a valentine treat today...tied myself in red silk scarves and shimmied on my side to the front porch
[19:49] <leeendah> was picked up by a homeless person..
[19:49] * chensay giggles
[19:50] * ^Ming smiles... listening
[19:50] * ntalia laffs.
[19:50] <Bugs42`> well at least someone helped you li
[19:50] <ravnshad> Ohhh I was thinking maybe ..scening Bugs?
[19:51] <^Ming> like a heart shaped paddle perhaps
[19:51] <Bugs42`> scening on Valentines Day?
[19:51] <chensay> i know someone who would LOVE to be scening right now
[19:51] <ravnshad> sure..why not?
[19:51] * chensay grins
[19:51] * Bugs42` puts the hooks in the ceiling
[19:52] <ravnshad> I would!!!
[19:52] * ravnshad jumps up and down..memememememememe!
[19:52] <ntalia> i know a few who would like to be scening also.
[19:52] <ravnshad> <--- evil little subbie
[19:52] <fritz{M^L> your back must be a-one
[19:52] <ravnshad> true fritz..but I can still play with my back
[19:52] * ntalia snuggles Amax. mememememe 2-2-2-2-2
[19:52] <Amax> Shouldn't that be "evil little female subbie"?"
[19:52] <ravnshad> that too Amax..
[19:52] <Amax> Or "elf subbie"
[19:53] <Bugs42`> but what about a nice mushy movie and cuddling in front of a fireplace?
[19:53] * ntalia laffs at raven's pointy ears.
[19:53] <ravnshad> Ohhh..that would be nice Bugs...what movie?
[19:54] <Bugs42`> the new stephen king one? or perhaps Buster and Billie
[19:54] * chensay grins stephen king mushy? LOL
[19:54] <Amax> Steven, mushy?
[19:55] <fritz{M^L> Milady sent me three valentine's cards from the states
[19:55] <Bugs42`> well, I had to try
[19:55] <ravnshad> that's not mushy!
[19:55] <fritz{M^L> She is moving to OZ on the 19th May
[19:55] <ntalia> i would like to see something scary so i could bury my head in someone's shoulder or chest and have him hold me close.
[19:55] * chensay agrees with natalia
[19:55] <Bugs42`> there, taht is what I was thinking, thanks talia
[19:59] * ravnshad says Hello and welcome to leather and roses' weekly discussions on BDSM the following rules apply..
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[20:00] <ravnshad> Tonight's topic is special things or treats we do for our partners on holidays..as today is Valentine's Day...
[20:00] <ravnshad> so, what kinds of treats do you like to give your partner?
[20:01] <ntalia> well, i used to make chocolate fondue for dessert every valentine's day because it is good to have drippy food that you can lick off places it drips when you want to be romantic.
[20:02] <subdancer> hee hee yum
[20:02] <fritz{M^L> marvelous idea for next year
[20:02] <Bugs42`> mmmmm, sounds delicious
[20:02] <ravnshad> ohhh..that sounds good talia
[20:03] <chensay> well i sent Mistress a dozen white roses... *grins* but right now i am far away from her or i might have gotten more creative
[20:03] <ravnshad> What would you have liked to do chensay?
[20:03] * chensay thinks of intriguing ways to use roses
[20:03] <ntalia> i once found a chocolate shop that made chocolate handcuffs. they called them lovecuffs.
[20:03] <chensay> ... the stems make interesting stingy little whips....
[20:03] <ravnshad> Ohhh that sounds good.. :)
[20:04] <ravnshad> licorice makes good whips..the real thin ones..
[20:04] <ravnshad> hmmm..some physical fun that you can eat.. :)
[20:05] <Bugs42`> Gosh, all I did was actually remember to get cards....
[20:06] * ravnshad didn't do anything really
[20:06] <chensay> i would probably have filled the bathroom with candles and the tub with hot water and scented oils... and completely pampered Her, maybe a glass of nice wine... then a full body massage afterwards.... then *WEG* whatever She wanted to do....
[20:07] <raven^> Ohhh chensay that sounds wonderful :)
[20:07] <Amax> Doers or dewers?
[20:07] * chensay smiles... i would love to do that
[20:07] <raven^> Are holidays such as Valentine's day as important in a BDSM relationship as they are in vanilla ones?
[20:08] <subdancer> i was with a Master once who was born on Val day :) made it very important still does
[20:09] <fritz{M^L> it all depends i think if one is romaticaly envolved with his/her Mistress,Master
[20:09] <ntalia> they were not in our house. master and i never spoke of love so it was not. but i tried to make it special.
[20:09] * chensay agrees with fritz
[20:10] <raven^> I can understand that dancer..would definitely make it important..
[20:10] <raven^> good point fritz :)
[20:10] <ntalia> if everyday isn't important, then no particular day is important.
[20:11] <subdancer> makes it so in my own mind it is a more important day to please who i am with
[20:11] <raven^> Even without love in the relationship, aren't holidays still important? even if it is just to acknowledge the bond between the dominant and the sub?
[20:11] <raven^> I agree with that dancer.. :)
[20:12] <chensay> sure... gives an extra reason to do something special... *grins*
[20:12] <fritz{M^L> annyversaries are important in a non love relationship...
[20:13] <fritz{M^L> like the day one is collard or the day one has met
[20:13] <Bugs42`> I think any chance to celebrate something is nice
[20:13] <raven^> I agree there fritz..they are quite important.. :)
[20:13] <Amax> One has to have the spirit to celebrate though...
[20:13] <raven^> What types of presents would be good (interesting, whatever) for a sub to give a dominant?
[20:14] <Bugs42`> while it is sad, a lot of times we forget to tell people how important they are to us without a special reason
[20:14] <cinna`> I buy presents for my friends whenever I think of them and feel they need a lttle something to brighten the day
[20:14] <fritz{M^L> submission
[20:14] <chensay> ... leather scented candles...
[20:14] <raven^> True Bugs..very true
[20:14] <raven^> I do the same cinna.. :)
[20:14] <cinna`> LOL....is there such a thing chensay?
[20:14] <raven^> Ohhhh I'd like those chensay :)
[20:15] <Bugs42`> leather scented?
[20:15] <fritz{M^L> agrees with cinna"
[20:15] <chensay> oh yes... i sent some to Mistress just because last month... she LOVED them.. said her whole house smelled like leather
[20:15] <raven^> How important is it to you that you know you are special to your partner?
[20:15] <cinna`> I have a bag by the door of current things I have bought for someone because they have thought of me or I them
[20:15] <subdancer> is there any place where Yours could be accepted in feeling You special and have it accepted in a non love relationship<to All>
[20:15] <cinna`> I should be Domme.......I need to be adored.....so I got a couple of cats.
[20:15] <Bugs42`> any truffles cinna`?
[20:15] <ntalia> i think it is very important to know that you're important.
[20:16] <cinna`> lol......no tuffles.......but I do still occasionally indulge
[20:16] <raven^> dancer, I don't understand the question..I'm sorry
[20:16] <Amax> Cats, adoring???
[20:16] <Bugs42`> only one a day cinna`, no more
[20:16] <ntalia> even in people who have multiple partners....there is usually something like abox of toys that is used only with one particular sub.
[20:16] <subdancer> as a Master in a non love relatinship when can the slave show love
[20:17] <raven^> Ahhh..good question..and since I'm not a dominant,I can't answer it..anyone care to take a stab at it?
[20:17] <cinna`> my cats adore me.. hang on my every word, I assure you
[20:17] * chensay giggles at cinna... my cat ignores me
[20:17] <subdancer> and when will You as Master show it back
[20:17] <fritz{M^L> never i believe...admiration , respect,
[20:18] <subdancer> but those are both forms of love
[20:18] <leeendah> interesting....it would be hard not to show love for a Master you admired and respected
[20:18] <raven^> not really dancer...
[20:18] <raven^> one can admire and respect someone without loving them
[20:18] <ntalia> but showing love is not about holidays.
[20:19] <leeendah> call me a hopeless romantic then
[20:19] <fritz{M^L> thank you raven this is correct
[20:19] <ntalia> it's about everyday.
[20:19] <raven^> no it isn't talia, but it seems to be that is when most people choose to show (more obviously) their feelings
[20:19] * chensay agrees with talia
[20:19] <raven^> I know quite a few people that I admire and respect, but I don't love them..
[20:19] <fritz{M^L> as love involves a lot of emotions one doesn't have to involve with respectability
[20:19] <subdancer> but i can not love someone without admiring and respecting them
[20:19] <raven^> I would think that admiration and respect are things that could be shown at any time to anyone..unless specifically told not to
[20:19] <chensay> i think showing someone everyday that you love respect and adore them is more important than a big show of affection on holidays
[20:19] <raven^> true dancer..
[20:19] <leeendah> true...when said like that
[20:20] <Amax> I believe one has to look for the love that is given to truely see it..
[20:20] * ntalia smiles at Amax.
[20:20] <raven^> I'm sorry everyone..
[20:20] <fritz{M^L> but if the love is not given...Amax
[20:20] <raven^> but I am in hellacious pain and just can't sit here any longer....
[20:20] <Amax> If one only sees the actual gifts, then they miss the most import love..
[20:20] <raven^> tonights discussion is meant to be lighthearted...so keep going if you would like.. :)
[20:21] <raven^> just..someone, please log the whole thing for me..
[20:21] <raven^> thank you
[20:22] <subdancer> did everyone hush or did i freeze
[20:22] <chensay> now where were we?
[20:23] <chensay> we lost our question thrower outer
[20:23] <chensay> LOL
[20:23] * Amax is in his chair
[20:23] <fritz{M^L> every one is in mourning..
[20:23] <subdancer> awe okay a hush fell over the room
[20:23] <Bugs42`> It seems strange that we talk about emotions all the time, but seldom show it to the ones that are closest to us
[20:23] <Bugs42`> I promise she isn't dead and will be back tomorrow
[20:24] <subdancer> a stronge energy just left is all
[20:24] <leeendah> it seems at times that emotions are off limits to subs
[20:24] <Bugs42`> why do you say that li?
[20:24] <fritz{M^L> please explain leeendah
[20:25] <leeendah> well I hear of respect...don't know if I can explain totally or maybe I m just carrying some unhealthy stuff from my vanilla relationships right into D/s ones
[20:26] <leeendah> I can't explain myself
[20:26] <Bugs42`> in some instances yes, subs are not allowed to show emotions, but on a day to day basis, I think it is needed
[20:26] <chensay> i think Mistress is very interested in my emotions.. sometimes when i balk at expressing them She helps me..She wants the whole truth.. to know me
[20:26] <chensay> how to help me grow...
[20:26] <fritz{M^L> when i met Milady, She was looking for a sub...
[20:26] <leeendah> I am not in any day to day relationships so I will have to see. I am sure this must be so
[20:26] <fritz{M^L> after three month we fell in love...
[20:27] <fritz{M^L> now we are about to move in and live together...
[20:27] <Bugs42`> emations are what helps us learn each other
[20:27] <leeendah> very nice fritz...
[20:27] <Azmadeus> Congradulations fritz{M^L}
[20:27] <subdancer> someone sent a poem to the list that tells well how i feel about Val day this year
[20:27] <cinna`> <------nothing but emotions....must be a terrible subbie
[20:27] <fritz{M^L> we'll be married in a BDSM/vanilla April 2000
[20:27] <leeendah> vulnerability in showing them is hard....the necessity to do so has to be there for growth of any kind
[20:28] <subdancer> cool fritz
[20:28] * chensay nodds... it is hard to show vulnerability
[20:28] <leeendah> cinna I am a Brat subbie....not a good one
[20:28] <cinna`> lol.......that makes at least two...leeendah
[20:28] <leeendah> I rant and push and play and tease...generally misbehave if I need attention
[20:28] <leeendah> sometimes it is cute
[20:28] <Amax> Emotions are just one more thing that controled properly in the moment add the the experience
[20:28] <leeendah> sometimes not so cute
[20:29] <subdancer> leeendah: thus my e-mail name Balg59
[20:29] <Bugs42`> but it is at least a way to learn and play
[20:29] <subdancer> or get whipped *WEG*
[20:29] * chensay giggles
[20:29] <Bugs42`> a lot of times it is because of lack of attention
[20:30] <leeendah> I think it is the right Dom and the right sub....it would take just the right one for any degree of real vulnerability for me
[20:30] <fritz{M^L> but giving and enjoying the gifts of love and submission is very rewarding
[20:30] <leeendah> dancer,...li is easier to type. What does Balg mean?
[20:30] <Bugs42`> a lot of trust huh, li?
[20:31] <subdancer> when i am with a Master one of the first things told is my need to tease and be emotional at time
[20:31] <Azmadeus> True.......it is a matching that is very hard to find....the right person for each.....
[20:31] <leeendah> yes...a lot of trust Sir
[20:31] <subdancer> BRAT
[20:31] <leeendah> LOL
[20:31] <leeendah> my cue to formality with one play partner is for him to call me "Little brat"
[20:32] <Bugs42`> but don't you have to show some emotions and vulnerability to build trust?
[20:32] <leeendah> I know the second he says it we have changed to serious play
[20:32] <fritz{M^L> how very true Azmadeus it took me close to 25 years to find the right Lady
[20:32] <leeendah> yes you do and I am a veritable fountain so it isn't that big a problem
[20:33] <leeendah> It is a dance Bugs. That is what is so special about the Doms who understand the delicasy
[20:33] <Bugs42`> ok so opening up slowly to build trust and then it is a cycle, right?
[20:33] <leeendah> They are a cut above
[20:34] <Azmadeus> Then I rejoice in your happiness fritz....and wish you many wonderful years
[20:34] <leeendah> yes fritz....rejoice.....Hallllelujah!
[20:34] <leeendah> don't get me singing
[20:34] <fritz{M^L> thank You Azmadeus
[20:34] <leeendah> off key but with heart
[20:35] <fritz{M^L> thank You leeendah
[20:35] <leeendah> a joyful noise in celebration
[20:35] <leeendah> li gags self
[20:36] <fritz{M^L> coming from Austria i thought i find a conection
[20:36] <leeendah> mmmmmmmn-uch better now
[20:37] <Bugs42`> Did everyone have a nice Valentines day?
[20:37] <leeendah> no
[20:37] <leeendah> yes
[20:37] <fritz{M^L> what's it like to get married in Connectecute
[20:37] <leeendah> maybe
[20:37] <cinna`> I sleot most of the day and then did laundry
[20:37] <leeendah> how was yours?
[20:38] <Bugs42`> I did laundry too
[20:38] <subdancer> ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
[20:38] <chensay> mine might have been better if i coulda delivered those flowers in person... *weg*
[20:38] <Bugs42`> what month fritz?
[20:38] <fritz{M^L> April 29th
[20:38] <Tred> worked out, dinner with friends and a movie
[20:38] <leeendah> chensay did I hear you say you were moving to be closer?
[20:39] <chensay> yes... summertime *fingers crossed*
[20:39] <leeendah> a pinch or two goes a long ways Sir Bugs
[20:39] <leeendah> I wish you all the happiness. You have such a wonderful graciousness, he is a lucky Master I think
[20:40] <Bugs42`> I amde myself a note, so I wouldn't have to run out this morning to get cards
[20:41] <leeendah> I cry in the card isle....it is embarrassing
[20:41] * Azmadeus smiles softly......Good thinking Bugs
[20:41] <Bugs42`> I forget otherwise
[20:41] <Bugs42`> question, does a bdsm relationship need love?
[20:42] <leeendah> no....
[20:42] * cinna` did 25 Valentine's cards for the kindergarten class
[20:42] <leeendah> but it adds a depth
[20:42] <leeendah> that is absent without it
[20:42] <leeendah> IMHO
[20:42] <Azmadeus> Yes
[20:42] <Azmadeus> For me at least
[20:42] <cinna`> For me., any relationshiop requires love.......
[20:42] <leeendah> in order to truly fully give it is an emotion I cannot help,nor would I wish to
[20:43] <cinna`> my supervisor always chides me because I simply must care about the people around me
[20:43] <Bugs42`> what about in the beginning?
[20:43] <fritz{M^L> i believe a bdsm relationsship without love is just playing
[20:43] <chensay> i care alot too...
[20:43] <Bugs42`> can it build to love?
[20:43] <leeendah> no not in the beginning
[20:43] <leeendah> yes
[20:44] <chensay> i think with love you can go deeper inside... give more of yourself
[20:44] <leeendah> as trust and openess grow it can build to love
[20:44] <fritz{M^L> give all and you will receive love
[20:44] <Azmadeus> I have a small problem.....I could not devote myself or accept the devotion without some love being involved....
[20:44] <Bugs42`> if you are in a relatiosn and your partner suddenly says they love you, what would you do?
[20:44] <cinna`> I used to come here quite often and then I stopped
[20:44] <leeendah> this is not a problem I don't think Az
[20:45] <cinna`> It is like that song .,looking for Love in all the wrong places
[20:45] <Tred> i think love has to be present for the relationship to last
[20:45] <cinna`> I think the love should come first.......then the trust that a bdsm relationship must have
[20:45] <chensay> i think that if it was true you could see by their actions... the way they look at you... that it was coming before they say it
[20:45] <leeendah> suddenly as in unexpected or not counted on? or put on the spot Bugs?
[20:45] <Azmadeus> Bugs....I would rejoice....because that is what it would take for me to have that partner in the first place.....
[20:45] <Bugs42`> I agree chensay, normally you see it before you hear it
[20:46] <Bugs42`> all of a sudden type on the spot, li
[20:46] <leeendah> I dunno...I recently had a play partner tell me they would do anything for me
[20:46] <leeendah> I told them to write me a large check and it was not included in the anything catagory *giggle*
[20:46] <fritz{M^L> but if You meet this person online Azmadeus, You can't see it but You can feel it through actions
[20:47] <leeendah> well first you would have to be honest with yourself about your feelings Bugs
[20:47] <leeendah> then you would have to decide what to do or say
[20:47] <leeendah> carefully
[20:47] <Bugs42`> very true li, and as for online fritz, how do you tell about their actions?
[20:48] <Azmadeus> fritz.......been there done that.......and through my own inaddiquecies...lost it
[20:48] <fritz{M^L> i met my lady online last August ...
[20:48] <chensay> the gift of their time online... they ammend their schedule to meet yours ... to see you as much as time allows...
[20:48] <cinna`> I don't think you can tell anything about anyone from an online experience
[20:48] <leeendah> I disagre cinna
[20:48] <fritz{M^L> after three month i received a card from her snail mail
[20:48] <leeendah> minds meeting first is a powerful thing
[20:49] <leeendah> if everyone is WYSIWYG
[20:49] <Azmadeus> Yes I can agree with fritz....it is at times a subtle thing...and at times one that you just have to take on faith....but you can tell....
[20:49] <leeendah> fritz...have you not met in person?
[20:49] <chensay> i know you can tell... if its real... time will tell.. if they are playing and only playing...they might get bored and move on?
[20:50] <fritz{M^L> we met for the first time a month ago and it was no different than online ecxept it was r/l
[20:50] * leeendah smiles
[20:50] <cinna`> you then are a lucky one fritz
[20:50] <fritz{M^L> i consider myself lucky, yes but...
[20:51] <fritz{M^L> i have or we have been extremely honest to each other from the word go
[20:52] <Bugs42`> I personally would have to meet before such an emotion could be shared
[20:52] <Bugs42`> no matter how long online
[20:52] <leeendah> it depends Bugs. I had an online best friend for 2 years...suddenly it was more than that
[20:53] <chensay> i met Mistress online... we are moving to real life...i am moving to be close to her.. *smiles*
[20:53] <fritz{M^L> to meet was my biggest fear, as everything seemed so perfect online
[20:53] <leeendah> we met in rl and it was powerful stuff
[20:53] <leeendah> but I have seen just as many stand and look at one another in the airport thinking what the hell do I do now?
[20:54] <Bugs42`> I agrre meetiong in r/l is very scarey but so nice after talking for so long
[20:54] * chensay nodds
[20:54] <fritz{M^L> but the fear vanished when i fell at her knees at the airport and She put her hands through my hair
[20:54] <leeendah> It is exciting to say the very least
[20:55] <Bugs42`> and as li said, I found the meetings very powerful and exciting
[20:55] * chensay smiles at fritz... sounds wonderful
[20:55] <leeendah> ohhhh fritz...I am melting...melting!
[20:55] <fritz{M^L> and it was very romantic
[20:55] <leeendah> they are arent they Bugs
[20:56] <leeendah> so many sweet memories
[20:56] <fritz{M^L> me too but from the heat it has 93F in Sydney
[20:56] <Bugs42`> oh yes the first meeting is very memorable
[20:56] <leeendah> brought to life in flesh and smells
[20:56] <leeendah> suddenly there
[20:56] <leeendah> already ready
[20:56] <leeendah> lol
[20:56] <fritz{M^L> remember it well
[20:57] <Bugs42`> sounds like many loves could flourish
[20:57] <fritz{M^L> but also feeling the power of the Domme was very reasuring
[20:57] <leeendah> I still have an unwashed shirt hanging in my closet from THAT one
[20:57] <leeendah> the web has merely made the earth a smaller place
[20:58] <Bugs42`> wow li, that was powerful
[20:58] <leeendah> has added intimacy
[20:58] <fritz{M^L> leeendah i have a wardrobe full of close from Milady, god i am lucky
[20:58] <fritz{M^L> and i have never changed the bedlinnen since She left
[20:58] <leeendah> very nice fritz
[20:58] * chensay gives thanks for the internet *smiles*
[20:59] <leeendah> it is special, enjoy
[20:59] <fritz{M^L> shhhh, can't tell Her that She'll flogg me to death
[20:59] <leeendah> and you would not like this fritz?
[20:59] <fritz{M^L> no comment, leendah
[21:00] <fritz{M^L> leeendah
[21:00] <leeendah> what?
[21:00] <fritz{M^L> lost an e, sorry
[21:00] <Bugs42`> ok, do some of you feel being flogged, paddled, etc, as a sign of love?
[21:00] <leeendah> points off for lost e's
[21:00] <leeendah> depends
[21:01] <`sara^> I believe it can be.. it isn't always though
[21:01] <leeendah> if it is because I need to learn something important, or need more control to be excersized then yes
[21:01] <subdancer> oh yeah cough choke :)
[21:01] <ntalia> for me, being bound was the sign of being owned.
[21:01] <fritz{M^L> to give or to receive love, Bugs42'
[21:01] <leeendah> that is true for me as well ntalia
[21:01] <ntalia> i never called what master and i had love, though looking back it was. i miss being owned.
[21:02] <leeendah> I have not been owned so I can't say
[21:02] <Bugs42`> either fritz.... I feel if I flog or paddle unless in punishment it is a sign that I at least care deeply if not love
[21:02] <fritz{M^L> i have a question now
[21:02] <Bugs42`> ok ask away
[21:02] <fritz{M^L> as most subs are female
[21:02] <fritz{M^L> in r/l
[21:02] <leeendah> not true fritz
[21:02] <chensay> i think it can be a sign of love.. they care enough for you to correct you ... or help you along in your submission... i think that if you DIDNT get flogged... got ignored.. that would be horrible..
[21:03] <leeendah> I had the misconception that most subs were female
[21:03] <fritz{M^L> it is easier for a Domme to own a sub/slave
[21:04] <`sara^> but it's not the flogging.. or the paddling .. that can just be outright cruelty.. it depends on what is in the Dom/Domme's heart
[21:04] <chensay> true
[21:04] <leeendah> power exchange has nothing to do with gender....
[21:04] <Bugs42`> I have no idea what the stats are, I see just about as many male subs
[21:04] <chensay> i know in my heart Mistress wants what is best for me... i trust Her
[21:04] <fritz{M^L> statistic say so leeendah
[21:04] <subdancer> my Masters of past always said spanking or whipping was too enjoyed by me to be a punishment, they did it cause it was a reward *WEG*
[21:05] * ntalia grins at subdancer.
[21:05] * chensay grins at dancer
[21:05] <leeendah> smile....it is a reminder of my Dom's position for me
[21:05] <chensay> well... there is good smacking... and there is drag your feet She is mad at me OMG heart pounding trouble...*giggles*
[21:05] <leeendah> have played enough to know that much
[21:05] <fritz{M^L> My Lady doesn't associate spanking and whipping with punishment
[21:06] <Bugs42`> I see punishment as just that but play is for my pleasure and my sub/slvae takes pleasure in me being pleased
[21:06] <Bugs42`> but they love subspcae
[21:06] <fritz{M^L> to withdraw favours and rewards are real punishment to me
[21:06] <`sara^> I agree with that Bugs Sir.. I get my pleasure from giving pleasure to my Master
[21:06] <leeendah> yes and if the top I am with enjoys the look or feel of whipping me then I can see it through his eyes and enjoy it
[21:07] * `sara^ nods empathicaly at fritz
[21:07] <subdancer> i have learned though that if done in anger i do not enjoy as much :( wanders off to listen from corner
[21:07] * `sara^ smiles at subdancer.. I agree.. that's what I meant about what is in the Dom's heart
[21:08] <subdancer> in the past it did not matter though that is a new point in my heart
[21:08] <leeendah> then there is discipline with love....a little trace of your lips with a finger
[21:08] <Bugs42`> That is why I never do anything in anger, punishment should be just that and not a way of revenge
[21:08] <leeendah> you are wise Sir Bugs
[21:09] <fritz{M^L> very wise and correct Bugs42'
[21:09] <Bugs42`> that way we keep anger and punishment and play all separate
[21:10] <ntalia> yes, i think that is wise.
[21:10] <fritz{M^L> do You have a time out, in any given time of the week, Bugs42'
[21:10] <Bugs42`> a time out?
[21:10] <leeendah> time out like how fritz?
[21:10] <subdancer> i do not understand that change though why the sudden change after all this time
[21:11] <fritz{M^L> "time out" to discuss what was right and what was wrong
[21:11] <leeendah> during a session?
[21:11] <fritz{M^L> and how did i feel and how didn't i feel
[21:12] <Bugs42`> no, we stay 24/7 all the time, we discuss when needed
[21:12] <fritz{M^L> a lot of problems in any relationship come from lack of communication
[21:12] <leeendah> I have a play partner who requires me to write this after any session
[21:12] <Bugs42`> the lines of communication are always open
[21:12] <chensay> Mistress stresses communication...
[21:13] <Bugs42`> I like the idea of a daily journal to be written in last thing at night
[21:13] <fritz{M^L> we are 24/7 and have arranged to have a discussion on an equal basis on Sundays over brunch
[21:14] <fritz{M^L> but as everyone is different we have decided to do it verbally
[21:14] <chensay> journal is interesting idea...
[21:14] <Bugs42`> that is good, but sometimes I like and need to review what has been written
[21:14] <fritz{M^L> i may get into trouble writing a jounal, my spelling is awfull
[21:14] <chensay> sometimes its easier to write than to speak...more time to think before you say something
[21:14] <Bugs42`> her journal is her free space, nothing written there is punishable
[21:15] <leeendah> i think it is easier to write and be really open
[21:16] <fritz{M^L> if it is her free space why is it punishable ?
[21:16] <fritz{M^L> she may have a blank space of mind
[21:16] <leeendah> plus it helps me to better see myself and understand my own reactions...this is a wonderful gift of a good Dom...to help a sub to open themselves
[21:17] <Bugs42`> especially good if you have a program that types as you speak, then just set a tape recorder next to the computer
[21:17] <Bugs42`> quick transcripts
[21:18] <leeendah> i think that the slower writing gives more time for contemplation
[21:18] <leeendah> and reliving *giggle*
[21:19] <Bugs42`> her free space is NOT punishable fritz. it is for us to learn
[21:20] <Bugs42`> and for her to vent
[21:20] <leeendah> but Bugs you are talking about a 24/7 sum up....so these journals would be far more in depth about all of life
[21:20] <fritz{M^L> ok
[21:20] <Bugs42`> raven says it is the only place she can call me names and get away with it
[21:20] <leeendah> i enjoyed the one you shared of ravens
[21:20] <fritz{M^L> i like that one Bugs42', "us"
[21:20] <Bugs42`> yes they are li. far more than just bdsm
[21:21] <leeendah> fritz...we have to be allowed our thoughts. our Dom/mes want to have the honesty of that expression
[21:21] <leeendah> it is the sign of a strong Master
[21:22] <fritz{M^L> but i express myself better in action than words
[21:22] <leeendah> it shows their confidense and a depth of care
[21:22] <fritz{M^L> better even written words
[21:22] <Bugs42`> and it is indeed for us, fritz, I am not alone in this relationship and neither is she... we are all partners
[21:22] <leeendah> does your Mistress wish you to speak or write?
[21:23] <cinna`> <-------is a 'raver' .......much safer to write
[21:23] <fritz{M^L> speak
[21:23] <leeendah> is this difficult for you?
[21:23] <Bugs42`> as in rant and rave, cinna`?
[21:23] <fritz{M^L> no i have the gift of the gab
[21:23] <leeendah> She wishes healthy communication and you should work hard at learning it
[21:23] <chensay> i dont know which Mistress prefers... speaking or writing...as long as i am able to communicate to her...
[21:24] <subdancer> i hate journals i always bable and say stupid stuff
[21:25] <fritz{M^L> everyone communicates different, dancer
[21:25] <subdancer> if i think it i write it
[21:25] <chensay> me too
[21:25] <chensay> LOL
[21:25] * leeendah is so enamored with her own thoughts that she loves to write them
[21:25] <Bugs42`> it all depends on the people.... I like writing or should I say reading
[21:25] <chensay> i babble anyways...
[21:26] <subdancer> but my writing always gets me in trouble
[21:26] <leeendah> your journal system and that it is free territory is a very good one Sir Bugs
[21:26] <subdancer> i even mumble in my journals
[21:27] <Bugs42`> How does your writing get you in trouble?
[21:27] <leeendah> how dancer?
[21:27] <fritz{M^L> You are very lucky Bugs42' as raven is a jewel and i enjoy her writing as well
[21:27] <Bugs42`> I wish I could take the credit for it li, I believe it was ravens idea long ago... but I have adopted it
[21:27] <leeendah> she is RAVEN [smile]
[21:27] <subdancer> awe Sir Bugs You mean You don't read it
[21:28] <subdancer> kind of like rolling my eyes on paper Sir Bugs
[21:28] * chensay giggles
[21:28] <leeendah> dancer, how does your writing get you in trouble?
[21:28] <leeendah> lol
[21:28] <leeendah> very good visual dancer!
[21:29] <subdancer> then you know what i see in my head with it huh li
[21:29] <leeendah> I've not had the pleasure in D/s life that is to rant, rave, or roll my eyes....
[21:29] <leeendah> it is cute...endearing
[21:30] <leeendah> lemmee see you roll those eyes!
[21:30] <Bugs42`> if you are asking if I read her journal, subdancer, yes, every morning at about 6am
[21:30] <subdancer> well what would happen if you rolled your eyes at Him/Her?
[21:30] * chensay leans back against the recliner and watches with a crooked grin
[21:31] <leeendah> Sir Bugs? How does this effect your day or your view of her?
[21:31] <chensay> i dont think rolling the eyes would go over well... *looking thoughtful*
[21:31] <subdancer> and if she rolls her eyes in her writing Sir Bugs
[21:31] <leeendah> then I will be in trouble a lot some day
[21:32] <Bugs42`> It really makes my day go faster because I am thinking of what she has written
[21:32] <leeendah> course i like that aspect of being tamed so that is ok..*g*
[21:33] <leeendah> but you take none of it personally?
[21:33] <subdancer> had a few i was with that i wore a bruise on the side of my face often for my eye contact and actions
[21:33] <leeendah> It never makes you feel angry.....or sullen
[21:33] <leeendah> i don't believe i would care for being hit in the face
[21:34] <Bugs42`> sure I take it personally, but it is her free area and it gives me a lot to think about
[21:34] <leeendah> but have lived in an abusive relationship
[21:34] <subdancer> nither did i
[21:34] <leeendah> faces are tender
[21:34] <fritz{M^L> the face is taboo, i agree with you leeendah
[21:35] <leeendah> first off faces show
[21:35] <Bugs42`> I agree, the face is off limits and it sounds like it was done more in anger than as ounishment... I don't see it as punishment anyway
[21:35] <subdancer> i wish more felt that way i always most always get face bruisers
[21:35] <leeendah> yes this is not something i would like in any relationship
[21:35] <leeendah> do you live with this now dancer?
[21:36] <subdancer> turned away and then was sent away from it
[21:36] <fritz{M^L> this is the only limit i asked for when i was questioned about my limits
[21:37] <leeendah> good girl
[21:37] <subdancer> He has not been able to touch me for a long time though
[21:38] <leeendah> I will add this to my list of hard limits
[21:38] <subdancer> limits in the end seem to loose worth once they own though
[21:39] <fritz{M^L> do You have soft and hard limits in Your relationship Bugs42'
[21:39] <leeendah> but the list is growing smaller and smaller so it is time to add something
[21:39] <ntalia> some of it, but it seems to be continuing sir.
[21:39] <Bugs42`> actually we are getting to where there are no limits, raven is becoming more slave than sub
[21:40] <Bugs42`> but I would never break any of her limits....that is a no go area
[21:40] <subdancer> is that good Sir Bugs
[21:41] <fritz{M^L> what a gentleman, i'll take my hat off to You
[21:41] <subdancer> that she is becoming more slave i mean
[21:41] <Bugs42`> I think it is good, yes, dancer, we are getting so close and feel so comfortable
[21:43] <Bugs42`> to me, the best way to show raven my love is to respect her always and if I go beyond a limit, I have hurt her, me and our relationship... I would never do that
[21:43] <Bugs42`> they are simply a way to separate a name from someone elses normallt li
[21:44] <fritz{M^L> if i would be a woman, i would beg You to be my master
[21:45] <Bugs42`> thanks fritz
[21:46] <leeendah> i was asking about the significance of the ^ in a nick. I am a newbie and things are sometimes simple and have no meaning
[21:46] <leeendah> I work at being polite and correct but it is hard for me <wink>
[21:46] <Bugs42`> we were curious about the ^ in your nick, LAR^
[21:47] <leeendah> then I was curious how to tell a Dom from a Domme in a nick
[21:47] <fritz{M^L> but having patiently waited for my Lady and having found Her, i can see a close similarity between the two of You
[21:47] <leeendah> just call me plain curious
[21:47] <LAR^> Ahhh, well there was a LAR who kept hangin in pre-teen sex
[21:47] * Amax nods to subdancer
[21:47] <fritz{M^L> have You gone to the same domme/Dom school
[21:48] <LAR^> And LAR is fairly well known due to my creating the newsgroup A.S.S. and I did not want it confused
[21:48] <Bugs42`> that is what I thought, a way to separate a name from someone elses
[21:48] <leeendah> like a child i ask lots of questions
[21:48] <Bugs42`> I wish there were a Dom/me school, but I am just me and do my best to stay that way
[21:49] <Bugs42`> that is fine li, ask all you want
[21:49] <fritz{M^L> if you dont ask, you will never know, leeendah
[21:50] <fritz{M^L> we are opening a conference and training school in Sydney, just an hours drive, within the next two years
[21:50] <leeendah> you are?
[21:50] <fritz{M^L> WE, is Milady and myself
[21:50] <leeendah> that sounds impressive
[21:50] <Bugs42`> sounds like fun, fritz, but I don't think the company will pay for it
[21:51] <fritz{M^L> if we are ready would You like to come and teach Bugs42'
[21:51] <Bugs42`> thanks for the offer fritz, but that is not a qualifiable reason to immigrate to Australia
[21:51] <fritz{M^L> You could always take a holiday
[21:52] <fritz{M^L> i ment in a seminar
[21:52] <leeendah> he has raven on his hands...she is a fulltime job
[21:52] <Bugs42`> now. a holiday in Sydney is a good idea as long as I can see Melbourne again also
[21:52] <fritz{M^L> diidn't think one wants to immigrate to teach
[21:52] <fritz{M^L> an hours flight
[21:53] <Bugs42`> that is indeed tempting.... thank you
[21:53] <Bugs42`> I would love to see Australia again and share it with my family
[21:54] <leeendah> and what would you think the most important lesson be Sir Bugs...making notes for valentines cards? <li ducks and runs>
[21:54] <fritz{M^L> we'll have accomodation for about 30 people and sub staff to service the guests
[21:54] <Bugs42`> well all, we started this about Valentines Day
[21:54] <Bugs42`> and one of my gifts was doing laundry and I still have some on the line I need to get
[21:55] <Bugs42`> I thank everyone for coming and talking and helping me learn a few things
[21:55] <leeendah> I need to go. Night to all and thanks for being here. I enjoy you all mucho
[21:55] <Bugs42`> I did have fun tonight
[21:56] <Bugs42`> we have chats every sunday night
[21:56] <Bugs42`> normally raven is here and runs the talks,
[21:56] <fritz{M^L> can You please tell me the time You have at the moment
[21:56] <Bugs42`> she should be back next week
[21:56] <Bugs42`> I have 10:00pm Sunday night
[21:57] <fritz{M^L> thank You 16 hours difference
[21:57] <Bugs42`> everyone also knows where to reach everyone on the dom_sub list

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