Keeping The Spark Alive

[19:07] <ravenshad> do you think that some people enter into BDSM relationships thinking that because it is a BDSM relationship it will never lose it's spark?
[19:08] <subdancer> no way raven they are just like any relationship, ya gotta work at it
[19:08] <ravenshad> How does one work to keep the spark alive in a BDSM relationship?
[19:08] <_mizu_> some think that way raven, figure that they control the other, then it will never end
[19:09] <Azmadeus> Somehow I think that ANY relationship take in part the exclusive attention of both Partners......
[19:09] <ravenshad> yes I agree mizu that some do think that way..
[19:09] <subdancer> keep site of each other
[19:09] <^Dave> The biggest rule in a BDSM relationship is communication
[19:10] <_mizu_> they do not see that it is a deeper comitment, just a easy one
[19:10] <ravenshad> how does communication keep the "flame" alive Dave?
[19:11] <^Dave> its a two party system and communication is the only way of informing each other of their likes and dislikes.
[19:11] <subdancer> everything changes with time communicate and go with the changes wave and don't fight the current and grow together
[19:11] <ravenshad> ok..but what happens when a relationship has reached the point where those involved know each other so well that they no longer have to say "Honey, I hate green beans"...how does communication help then?
[19:12] <ravenshad> true dancer and communication can keep each other abreast of those changes..
[19:13] <_mizu_> best is to feel how the other feel's, to seee how thing's affect them
[19:14] <subdancer> keep trying new things together raven and who cares about green beans then
[19:14] <ravenshad> true dancer..
[19:14] <ravenshad> Do you think it is important for people to realize that any relationship loses that newness spark from it over time?
[19:15] <^Ming> Sometimes the relationship was ignited on the fact there were new limits to explore... once those limits are found... new things get difficult 
[19:16] <ravenshad> This is true Ming...
[19:16] <subdancer> but W/who truely knows their limits in a totally new area Ming?
[19:16] <_mizu_> yes raven, the thing is to keep it a challange alive, i was trained for 5 year's but still see new thing's to me
[19:16] <ravenshad> Can one ever reach a point where there is nothing "new" to explore?
[19:17] * Azmadeus nods.....Yes relationships can lose thier...spark...thier livliness.....but it in incumbent on Both partners to find a new spark....
[19:17] <_mizu_> never, to much to learn raven, or to explore
[19:17] <^Ming> two people... two minds... two dreams... two fantasies... keeping the same path is a challenge
[19:17] <subdancer> never, unless Y/you loose site of the other
[19:18] * Azmadeus settles on the couch and listens
[19:18] <_mizu_> true sub
[19:18] <ravenshad> do you think it is easy to lose sight of one another?
[19:18] <subdancer> too easy at times
[19:18] <ravenshad> what are some ways to prevent this?
[19:18] <Azmadeus> Two peoples fantasies?.......this has possiblities....but truely...Is it not in the hands of the Dom/Master?
[19:18] <_mizu_> if the comitment is not there, then yes
[19:19] <ravenshad> no I don't think so Az..if both don't contribute, then the relationship fails..
[19:19] <subdancer> never let another's words or ideas come between Y/you
[19:19] * Azmadeus sighs...Yes it is very easy to lose sight of one another...particularly if the real world intrudes.....
[19:19] <ravenshad> easier said than done sometimes dancer..
[19:20] <ravenshad> the enactment of fantasies is in the dom's hands..but isn't it a good idea for the dominant to know what fantasies really turn his/her sub on so those can be included if they choose to?
[19:20] <ravenshad> I mean really..if there is no give to the sub, wouldn't feelings of neglect eventually begin to form?
[19:21] <_mizu_> yes raven, they will
[19:21] <subdancer> but if Y/you choose to communicate the words and ideas and all the meanings, it does not always happen
[19:21] * Azmadeus smiles and nods...Yes raven..both are responsible.....but does not the ultimate responsiblity lay on the Master/Dom?
[19:21] <ravenshad> In my opinion Az, not always...
[19:21] <ravenshad> I think it is just as much each person's responsibility to keep the relationship going..not just one or the other..
[19:22] <_mizu_> you have to be together, in all way's to m,ake it work
[19:22] <subdancer> very true raven
[19:22] * Azmadeus leans back reflecting on ravens words
[19:22] <ravenshad> is there such a thing as too much togetherness mizu?
[19:23] <_mizu_> not that i have been in raven, Marisha we had are time apart, but that was when she was at work
[19:23] * ravenshad nods..makes sense to me mizu
[19:23] * Azmadeus nods emphatically....Yes....one needs that closeness...one needs that constant feedback....one needs to know thta what one does is acceptable to the other...
[19:24] <_mizu_> other than that we were together, we shared all
[19:24] <_mizu_> so at times i did not fit into her black tie world, but i tried
[19:24] <ravenshad> I agree Az that people need to know their efforts are appreciated and noticed..
[19:25] * Azmadeus shudders at the thought of living in a black tie world
[19:25] <ravenshad> Do you think that the deeper comittment which many believe to be a part of a BDSM relationship, vs a vanilla one, makes it easier for the relationship to fall apart over things that may not have killed a vanilla one?
[19:25] <_mizu_> Marisha's job and her parent's caused that Sir
[19:26] <_mizu_> i do raven, vanilla is easy, a true BDSM is not
[19:27] <ravenshad> I have to agree there mizu.it is more difficult than a vanilla relationship...each person has greater responsibilities...or at least is more aware of those responsibilities than they are in vanilla
[19:27] <ravenshad> could this knowledge of how difficult a BDSM relationship is contribute to losing the spark?
[19:29] <_mizu_> i do not think most have the abilty to ever start one raven
[19:30] <ravenshad> start one what mizu?
[19:30] <_mizu_> a BDSM relationship
[19:30] <ravenshad> good point..
[19:30] <ravenshad> but there aren't any set rules about starting a relationship..so wouldn't starting one be up to those involved?
[19:30] <_mizu_> they think the play can keep it together, but it won't
[19:30] <ravenshad> I agree..play alone will not keep a relationship together..
[19:31] <_mizu_> true raven
[19:32] <ravenshad> though I can't say that those who enter into a relationship solely for the play will have problems since their goal for the relationship was strictly play to being with
[19:32] * ravenshad is thinking of play partners where the play is the base of the relationship for many people..
[19:33] <_mizu_> yes, but for me, i do not see it that way, i can not just play, i can serve another, but to truely play it must be where there is a possablity of entering into a relationship
[19:33] <ravenshad> I understand that mizu...
[19:34] <ravenshad> I can play for play's sake...always could..
[19:34] <_mizu_> i serve because i enjoy it, but play i reserve for the one i want to be with
[19:34] <ravenshad> I can understand that mizu and I envy that..
[19:35] <ravenshad> What are some things that can be done to help keep the spark alive in a relationship when reality becomes mundane and a feeling of boredom shows up?
[19:36] <_mizu_> for me was the training, alway's learning thing's
[19:40] <^Guil> I guess there are 2 cases of that raven....one is the initial fading of the rush of the new relationship (poly folk call it NRE - New Relationship Energy..) and the other is when day to day life gets in the way..
[19:40] <ravenshad> I agree Guil..so what does one do when the NRE wears off a bit?
[19:41] <^Guil> ....shoot, that's the harder one...
[19:41] <ravenshad> yup it is..but thats the topic..
[19:42] <ravenshad> I think it is important for people to realize that just beacuse a relationship is based on BDSM it doesn't mean that the relationship is not subject to the same things which befall a vanilla one
[19:42] <^Guil> ....the short answer is......go deeper....find something more profound than that initial rush...
[19:42] <ravenshad> shouldn't something deeper have been figured out before the relationship moved into a more permanent arena?
[19:43] <^Guil> *should*, sure.....
[19:43] <ravenshad> I know..it doesn't always happen
[19:43] <_mizu_> sure, but most never try for it raven
[19:43] <^Guil> ...but I also suspect that you *can't* find that depth except by doing it..
[19:43] <ravenshad> this is true mizu
[19:43] <ravenshad> this is true as well Guil
[19:45] <^Guil> ...my wife and I are both obviously D/s people....but our relationship is vanilla...i'd say our relationship is deeper now than ever...but it took 10+ years and a LOT of work to get there...
[19:45] <ravenshad> This is true Guil and it seems many do not want to put forth such effort..
[19:46] <^Guil> ......then they, I suspect, won't find what they say they want...
[19:46] <ravenshad> we talk about effort and all that but what exactly is that effort? 
[19:47] <^Guil> ....being there...surviving...commiting to your partner(s) that no matter what you'll be there....
[19:47] * ^Guil takes his (pure vanilla) marriage vows very seriously...
[19:47] <ravenshad> OK..comittment is a big one..and I agree ..without it, no relationship will survive..
[19:48] <ravenshad> what about honesty?
[19:48] <Amax> That has to be a big part of any good relationship...
[19:48] <^Guil> true....as does forgiveness...
[19:48] <Amax> And trust is so easy to loose..
[19:48] <ravenshad> is there such a thing as too much honesty?
[19:48] <ravenshad> yes..forgiveness is a major neccesity!
[19:49] <^Guil> YES!!!
[19:49] <ravenshad> Do you think things like setting aside time just for the two of you to be a strengthener of a relationship?
[19:50] <Amax> I think that has to be a must...
[19:51] <Amax> That is how the relationship starts...
[19:51] <ravenshad> do you think there should be a balance between time together and time spent alone?
[19:51] <Amax> Even though relationships change over time, that is one part that needs to be there..
[19:51] <Amax> I believe that depends on the couple...
[19:52] <Amax> Some people need/require more alone time than others...
[19:52] <ravenshad> do you think there should be some sharing of interests? for example, the man likes sports the woman isn't crazy about them but once in a while shows interst in them anyway...
[19:52] <ravenshad> this is true Amax...
[19:53] <Amax> The sharing has to go both ways...
[19:53] <Amax> I've seen too many couples where only one tries to share in the other's interests...
[19:53] <ravenshad> I agree..I used that example because it was the first one to come to mind..
[19:53] <ravenshad> yes..so have I..
[19:54] <Amax> I think even I could enjoy shopping if I was with someone special...
[19:54] <subdancer> share interests but to pretend to like something you don't can be taken as a lie
[19:54] <Amax> Just the time with them would be nice...
[19:54] <ravenshad> Not pretend you like it..just once in a while show interest in it ...
[19:54] <ravenshad> It was something I never did before dancer, but with Master I do it now..and I've found that it has helped us get closer to one another..
[19:54] <Amax> But that goes back to honesty, subd...
[19:55] <ravenshad> he knows I don't like football anymore than I did 8 months ago..but he also knows I am interested in at least listening when he wants to talk about it..
[19:55] <ravenshad> he has done the same with cross stitching and collectible Barbie Dolls
[19:56] * ^Guil smiles
[19:56] * Amax ponders raven at a game wearing one of those big foam hands...
[19:56] <^Guil> ...as long as he doesn't demonstrate the football plays with the collectible barbies, I think you'll be okay..
[19:56] <ravenshad> Actually, by showing an interest in football and stuff like that, I have found that I enjoy it to a certain extent..though my greatest enjoymnent is the smile on Master's face when I sit and watch a game with him...
[19:56] <ravenshad> LOLOL Amax
[19:56] <ravenshad> ROFL He better not !!!!! I'd kill him!!!
[19:56] * ^Guil ponders raven with one of those silly beer hats on...
[19:57] * ravenshad giggles
[19:57] * Amax ponders raven doing the wave...
[19:57] <ravenshad> I guess doing that could be called acceptance of differences?
[19:58] <^Guil> yup...
[19:58] <subdancer> well in that aspect raven his pleasure that makes a difference
[19:58] <ravenshad> yes it does make a difference dancer.. :)
[19:59] <ravenshad> Do you think supporting your partner is important? even if it is supporting them in something you may not enjoy?
[20:00] <ravenshad> I hate golf..it's like watching flies fuck!
[20:00] <Amax> Well, without the magifying glass, raven..
[20:01] <Amax> Not enjoy or can't understand?
[20:01] <ravenshad> not enjoy..for example..do you enjoy sewing Amax?
[20:01] <Amax> It depends on how big the hole in the garment is...
[20:02] <Amax> But usually, not really...
[20:02] <ravenshad> how about a hand sewn quilt Amax?
[20:02] <Amax> From time to time it can be a diversion..
[20:02] <Amax> I don't believe I would have that patience...
[20:02] <ravenshad> ok..so lets say you don't enjoy making a quilt..would you say that supporting me (who likes making quilts) would strengthen the relationship? whereas riduculing it would weaken it?
[20:03] <Amax> Oh very much so....
[20:03] <ravenshad> that's what I meant :)
[20:03] <Amax> If it would make you happy, how could that not make me happy?
[20:03] <ravenshad> supporting your partner's activities even if they are not things you personally would enjoy doing..
[20:04] <ravenshad> I think such support is important in a relationship...you?
[20:04] <Amax> Very much so...
[20:05] <^Guil> yes, raven, but there are limits - common sense ones - I couldn't support something that I felt was unfairly taking time from the relationship..
[20:05] <ravenshad> Do you think it can help keep a spark alive?
[20:05] <ravenshad> Of course Guil..this is understandable..
[20:06] <Amax> Hmmmmm...