Presents:
BDSM Discussion 20
Safety
All Comments Posted Here With Permission Of The Participants
Session
Start: Sun May 30 22:41:32 1999
[22:41] <ntalia> if you do not wish your name used in the log, please email myself or NoirRose of mizu or msg us.
[22:41] <NoirRose> Or fae.
[22:41] <NoirRose> Or Raven, even.
[22:43] <ntalia> okay, how important an issue is safety in your play?
[22:43] <NoirRose> I would have to say very
[22:44] <ntalia> and question two, how do you define safety?
[22:44] <LadyMist> if you can't at least do your best to keep a sub safe
[22:44] * NoirRose smiles
[22:45] <ntalia> that is fine. much of this is gut level reaction.
[22:45] * NoirRose nods
[22:45] <fae{NR}> safety is preventing either the sub or the Dominant from being hurt to a greater extent than what was intended
[22:46] <LadyMist> exactly
[22:46] <fae{NR}> as for the first question, the most important during play
[22:47] <LadyMist> so how can edgier things be safe?
[22:47] <LadyMist> like blood play...knife play...breath play...
[22:47] <fae{NR}> it depends on the people involved, knife play with someone who a) is familiar with blades and/or anatomy and b) has medical training is safe, especially when compared to the people experimenting with no real knowledge
[22:48] <fae{NR}> er...replace safe with safer actually
[22:49] <fae{NR}> as with safety in any play, having one or both/all have some basic medical training and the ability to call for help increases the level of safety drastically
[22:49] * LadyMist thinks of those with training in blades and how to kill
[22:49] <LadyMist> would they not be safe in how NOT to?
[22:49] <fae{NR}> Lady, including that. Think, if someone is trained on where to cut for the most damage, they know the places to _avoid_ cutting
[22:49] * LadyMist agrees
[22:50] * LadyMist is living with one who KNOWS how to damage...'S"
[22:50] * NoirRose nods
[22:50] <fae{NR}> what are some basic safety precautions that people can take for any form of play?
[22:50] <NoirRose> Know where the keys/scissors/telephone for 911 is
[22:50] <LadyMist> CPR....
[22:50] <LadyMist> exactly
[22:51] * LadyMist agrees with NR
[22:51] <ntalia> i think #1 is knowing who you are playing with. i hear so much about people meeting through parties or irc, and not really knowing the person they're involved with.
[22:51] <ntalia> i can't imagine being with a stranger
[22:51] <fae{NR}> very good point talia
[22:51] <LadyMist> avoid anything that alters the conscious...like drugs...alcohol...ETC
[22:52] <heavn{A}> i know this will prolly sound too basic, but working out clear means of communication regardless of the stage of bondage/gaggin or type of play
[22:52] <LadyMist> (exception is the meds like raven is on....and being with someone who KNOWS how you are...)
[22:52] <fae{NR}> heavn, also a very good point, sometimes forgotten by "experienced" people because it's so basic they don't go over it before things get to a point where it's required
[22:52] <LadyMist> but trust is first...
[22:53] * heavn{A} nods
[22:53] <LadyMist> if you can't trust that the Other is going to respect your communication
[22:54] <LadyMist> how can edgier stuff be made MORE safe?
[22:55] <fae{NR}> depends on what type of edgier stuff (physical vs. psychological), but in all areas, study and research
[22:55] <LadyMist> I was speaking of the physical...'S'
[22:55] <heavn{A}> knowing a person's particular physical condition(s) - which certainly is part of knowing who you are playing with
[22:55] <LadyMist> I even fear to tread into the psychological...
[22:55] <fae{NR}> *gryn* but psychological is also part of it (mental & emotional) and some prefer those styles of edge play
[22:56] <LadyMist> yes... are we getting into humiliation?
[22:56] <fae{NR}> but research on physical is also very important, know where not to cut, know the limits on asphyxiation to not cause damage, know the detremental effects and when they set in for long term bondage, etc.
[22:57] <fae{NR}> if someone takes the conversation there, yes, if not maybe not this time
[22:57] <fae{NR}> what are some danger signs to constantly look for (physical signs are primary, but others are also good)?
[22:58] <LadyMist> I always find it broadening that what I find embarassing ( in a good way ) does not bother someone else...
[22:59] <fae{NR}> *gryn* and how sometimes things that seem very embarassing at first become easy to accept and don't become embarassing anymore
[23:00] * LadyMist laughs and AGREES
[23:00] * NoirRose smiles
[23:00] <heavn{A}> may i ask, are there recommended resources for reading on the topic of safety in play?
[23:01] <ntalia> yes, there is a very good book S&M 101.
[23:01] <LadyMist> ahhh..depends on what you are playing..
[23:01] <ntalia> and another book called Other Loving.
[23:01] <LadyMist> I didn't like SM101
[23:01] <ntalia> if you go to the channel webpage, you'll find some articles as well as reading material
[23:01] <heavn{A}> even in "Screw the Roses, Send me the Thorns" there are helpful ideas on safety in spanking and such
[23:01] <ntalia> and some things that will point you to other on line articles
[23:02] <heavn{A}> thank you ntalia <s>
[23:02] <LadyMist> seemed like (for a BUNCH) that it was putting out acceptable and safe ways to play with people you didn
[23:02] <LadyMist> 't know
[23:02] <LadyMist> I did like "Screw...."
[23:02] * heavn{A} grinz
[23:02] * chens{LM} wants to read that one
[23:03] <LadyMist> Will get it back from Jackal and send it...
[23:03] * chens{LM} grins... or you could wait til im there
[23:04] <LadyMist> I could at that...'S"
[23:04] <LadyMist> safety on line? how is that accomplishe?
[23:04] <LadyMist> d?
[23:05] <chens{LM}> dont give out personal information to everyone ...
[23:05] <LadyMist> 'S'
[23:05] <LadyMist> are safe calls really that safe?
[23:05] <fae{NR}> keep in mind that the person behind the other nick is a person and has feelings as real as yours
[23:06] <chens{LM}> i think safe calls can be safe... *has been a safe call*
[23:08] <LadyMist> but....what would the police do in the event a safe call is use?
[23:09] <chens{LM}> i think they would go there. all you would need to say is you were talking to a friend on the phone and they asked you to call for help that they are in trouble... let the police question them when they get there. ins tead of you on the phone
[23:09] <fae{NR}> depends on the situation, first get everyone out of any kind of danger
[23:09] * heavn{A} smiles and nods to fae and ntalia
[23:09] <fae{NR}> then ask lots of questions
[23:10] <LadyMist> But the police will Do NOTHING until thier 24 / 48 hour missing person criteria is met...
[23:10] <LadyMist> so how can a safe call protect?
[23:10] <fae{NR}> if you call and say there's trouble at such and such they have to respond
[23:11] <chens{LM}> dont say its missing person. just say someoen at that addres s need s help...
[23:11] <fae{NR}> or, rather than call police, call a good friend w/ lifestyle knowledge
[23:11] <LadyMist> No....they won't...unless the person at the addy asks for help from the police..
[23:11] <LadyMist> and they can?
[23:12] <NoirRose> That depends on the police in your area.
[23:12] <NoirRose> And they will go if you say that there's an emergency in that addy
[23:13] <LadyMist> and when they ask what emergency?
[23:15] <fae{NR}> sum it up as sucinct as possible, and as neutral "someone got stuck, is hurt and we can't get him/her unstuck"
[23:15] <chens{LM}> say i dunno... they screamed and the phone got disconnected ,,, HURRY
[23:15] * NoirRose nods
[23:15] <LadyMist> (playing devils advocate here...please don't take my head off)
[23:16] <NoirRose> Or just say you hear screams
[23:16] <LadyMist> Does anyone trust a safecall over say...intuition?
[23:16] <NoirRose> They'll treat it as an anonymous call of a domestic
[23:16] <LadyMist> your gut reaction that someone is not safe to play with?
[23:16] <NoirRose> And cops check out domestic disturbances fairly quickly.
[23:16] <ntalia> no, intuition first, i would think. but i think i would want to have all the safety tools in place that i could
[23:16] <chens{LM}> no... if my intuition said they were in danger and their words said they were okay id go with my feelings
[23:16] * NoirRose nods at chens
[23:16] <NoirRose> Trust your feelings
[23:16] * LadyMist has been in domestic situations....here...and you are luckly if they get checked oput beofre tomorrow...
[23:16] * LadyMist smiles...and knows how well that does NOT work here...wishing our police were better.
[23:17] * chens{LM} had the police show up bc the people up stairs thought someone was gettin beat and it was just sex... made me come to the door and tell him myself i was okay... i almost DIED...i was so embarassed
[23:17] <LadyMist> so if outside influences don't work...and personal judgement is skewed...can the community help at all? if so how?
[23:19] <chens{LM}> *doesnt know*
[23:20] <heavn{A}> in order for say.. a neighbor..to be able to assist you.. wont they have to have some knowlege of what you are doing (ie.. i participate in d/s activities)?
[23:20] <heavn{A}> that is.. if this person were a type of safe call...
[23:20] <chens{LM}> i dont even know my neighbors names here...
[23:21] <LadyMist> community not only being your neighbors...but the leather community at large...
[23:21] * heavn{A} nods
[23:22] <LadyMist> education? information? blacklisting?
[23:22] <LadyMist> what would work?
[23:22] <heavn{A}> is this type of thing addressed in munches?
[23:22] <NoirRose> Sometimes
[23:23] * LadyMist relies heavily on dominants doing what they should...
[23:23] * LadyMist has never been to a munch...here in the deep south .... that wasn't a social....
[23:23] <LadyMist> and is that safe?
[23:23] <chens{LM}> has never been to a munch eiter
[23:23] <chens{LM}> either even *G*
[23:24] <LadyMist> for the local groups to subscribe to just social activity?
[23:24] <heavn{A}> then may i ask, how does the local leather community communicate.. if not through munches? (not on a munch kick.. just wanting to know their value in this community)
[23:25] <LadyMist> ?? I wish I knew....
[23:25] <LadyMist> I am more into Word of mouth....
[23:25] <LadyMist> ie....he hurt me...just thought you would like to know...
[23:26] <heavn{A}> LadyMist.. are there those Dominants and subs that You are in contant with regularly in Your area?
[23:26] <heavn{A}> are in contact..
[23:26] <chens{LM}> me agrees about word of mouth
[23:26] <LadyMist> yes...
[23:26] <LadyMist> has been in the area ...and in contact...for almost 10 years now. ....
[23:27] <LadyMist> and STILL can't stand to see dominants take advantage of subs
[23:27] <heavn{A}> and it is predominantly through word of mouth that You know the reputations/actions of O/others
[23:28] <LadyMist> not through word of mouth here...but through what I have seen in play...
[23:28] <LadyMist> munches are like the single bars of the BDSM world here....NOT saying it is like this everywhere...
[23:28] * heavn{A} nods
[23:29] <heavn{A}> i was hoping it was different
[23:29] <LadyMist> 'S' it is the same where you are?
[23:29] <fae{NR}> i've been to some in Niagra Falls and Cleveland, OH that wern't like that
[23:29] <LadyMist> YEAAAHHHH...
[23:30] <heavn{A}> i am not involved in a munch. i had a different impression of their purpose and function, Ma'am
[23:32] <LadyMist> I do too...
[23:32] <LadyMist> I would like to see them use for education and information..
[23:33] <chens{LM}> are they just to meet people then?
[23:33] <LadyMist> unfortunately it si not that way here.
[23:33] <fae{NR}> i think the people who organize munches and there intent have a lot to do with how they turn out...i know when Mistress organized one (the one in NF) it was a place where we could all just get together and chat, i think it lead to one party, but it wasn't a pick up funciton
[23:33] <LadyMist> so....how can newbies prtect themselves?
[23:33] <LadyMist> 'S' excellent...
[23:34] <fae{NR}> newbies on the net can do things like here, get in and just talk and listen, ask questions from many different sources and weigh what they here with what they feel
[23:34] <chens{LM}> go to them with some one you trust..
[23:34] * heavn{A} agrees with chens{LM}
[23:34] * LadyMist smiles
[23:35] <LadyMist> so does the S in SSC mean something different for everyone?
[23:35] <heavn{A}> <-- doesnt know what SSC means
[23:35] <fae{NR}> Safe Sane and Concentual is what i've always heard/told/been taught/taught
[23:36] <fae{NR}> (with apoligies for mispellings)
[23:36] <LadyMist> Foe example...I ogt pierced for our anniversary...
[23:36] <LadyMist> and some people do not consider piercings safe...
[23:37] <volsung> depends on where LadyMist...
[23:37] <heavn{A}> and with WHAT!
[23:37] <LadyMist> who / what constitutes "safe" in safe sane and consensual...
[23:37] * fae{NR} is looking forward to her piercings when she can afford them *
[23:37] <LadyMist> nipples...
[23:37] <fae{NR}> both parties
[23:37] <chens{LM}> the individuals involved....
[23:37] * fae{NR} purrrs at LadyMist, that's what i'm going for when i can *
[23:37] <LadyMist> and with sterile needles and Noibium rings
[23:37] * chens{LM} wants her belly button pierced
[23:37] <LadyMist> forgive my typos it is late here...LOL
[23:38] <heavn{A}> so to a certain extent, the definition of "safe" is closely related to the boundaries/limits of parties involved?
[23:39] <chens{LM}> i believe so...
[23:39] <fae{NR}> very true
[23:39] <fae{NR}> i consider bloodsports very unsafe (but then again, i have a phobia of knives), while others consider minor knife play (barely drawing blood) safe and fun
[23:40] * volsung thinks safe is a subjective term. whos only boundries are set by the ppl involved and enough common sense not to kill each other off
[23:40] <heavn{A}> Eeep!
[23:41] * LadyMist likes knifes...(member I am a switch...)
[23:41] * fae{NR} shudders and gryns *
[23:41] <LadyMist> I know how to use them...and when
[23:41] <fae{NR}> ykiokbnmk
[23:41] <heavn{A}> i would hope the limits would be drawn in a little tighter than "not to kill each other off"
[23:41] <LadyMist> and liked them used on me...
[23:41] * volsung loves knives with a passion, and collects them like kids collect baseball cards
[23:42] <LadyMist> ykiokbnmk???
[23:42] <LadyMist> OK...I am clueless
[23:42] <LadyMist> and not afriad to admit it...LOL
[23:42] <Abraxas> ykiokbnmk = your kink is ok but not my kink
[23:42] <chens{LM}> im also clueless *giggles*
[23:42] <chens{LM}> ah
[23:42] <fae{NR}> your kink is ok but not my kink
[23:43] <volsung> o
[23:43] <fae{NR}> sowwy *sheepish gryn*
[23:43] <heavn{A}> is that anything like "my kink's better than Your kink?"
[23:43] <volsung> lol heavn{A}
[23:43] <heavn{A}> hehehe
[23:43] * Abraxas laughs
[23:43] <fae{NR}> i stay away from those heavn *gryn* no OTP (One True Path) mentality here
[23:44] * fae{NR} chuckles *
[23:44] * heavn{A} flicks her bic and rasies it high
[23:44] * chens{LM} stares at the flame... watching it dance...
[23:44] <fae{NR}> *aloof tone* although my tv kink is much more stylish
[23:44] * fae{NR} rofl *
[23:44] <volsung> lol
[23:44] * NoirRose giggles at her fae
[23:44] <LadyMist> 'S' ok...
[23:45] <LadyMist> sooo? have we missed any of the really inportant safe questions?
[23:46] <heavn{A}> ok.. sounding the total newbie here... could W/we quickly discuss safe words?
[23:46] <NoirRose> sure
[23:47] <fae{NR}> sorry, am in a good mood tonight, do ask/discuss away
[23:47] <heavn{A}> <--- assumes that "STOP THAT!" is prolly not a good safe word
[23:47] <fae{NR}> heavn, for generic safewords, may people use the stop light theme
[23:47] <chens{LM}> i use sandman... something im not likely to say less i mean it *G*
[23:47] <fae{NR}> red = stop now, get me out
[23:48] <fae{NR}> yellow = slow down, that's too much but i don't need out because of it yet
[23:48] * NoirRose hears fae typing and waits to comment
[23:48] <fae{NR}> green = go ahead and continue/restart
[23:48] * LadyMist smiles at NR
[23:48] <heavn{A}> restart
[23:48] * NoirRose grins at LM
[23:48] <fae{NR}> say a scene was "yellow"ed, for too much pain/stimuli
[23:48] <fae{NR}> then you can "green" it to get it started again
[23:49] * heavn{A} nods.. thank you, fae{NR}
[23:49] <LadyMist> but a sub normally will not remember anywords in subapce....what then?
[23:49] <fae{NR}> (when pain levels go back to tolerable)
[23:49] <MissMyra> thats when a Dom does what they do best
[23:49] <fae{NR}> then it falls on the dominant putting/keeping the sub in subspace to check all the subtle signs
[23:49] <MissMyra> and steps in
[23:49] <LadyMist> how can a sub be assured of safe...how can a dom too?
[23:49] <fae{NR}> blue/cold fingers
[23:49] <LadyMist> 'S'
[23:49] <MissMyra> coz they are in control
[23:49] <chens{LM}> yeek
[23:49] <fae{NR}> quickness of breath close to hyperventilating
[23:50] * LadyMist throws out the question and listens...
[23:50] <fae{NR}> back off if the sub is reacting to things that you are not doing
[23:51] <chens{LM}> the dominant knowing the sub... and reacting if the sub is acting... different
[23:51] <LadyMist> so if a sub is NOT with a dominant they trust...
[23:51] <heavn{A}> could you please expalain "back off if the sub...."
[23:51] <fae{NR}> for subspace, the Dominant has to know the sub well
[23:51] <heavn{A}> (expalain... aCK! typo hell again)
[23:51] * chens{LM} giggles
[23:52] <fae{NR}> well, say you were in a flogging episode,
[23:52] <LadyMist> ahhh...during subspace...mine at least...a dominat can say "I am going to cut off your arm now"
[23:52] <fae{NR}> then the sub would normally flinch from expected flogging from behind
[23:52] <LadyMist> and I will purrr "OKKKKKKKKk"
[23:52] <fae{NR}> but say they start whipping their head like they were avoiding blows to the head
[23:53] <fae{NR}> (cringing flinches)
[23:53] <fae{NR}> reactions that would not be caused by what you are doing
[23:53] <heavn{A}> i follow you now.. thank you fae{NR}
[23:53] <LadyMist> (being literal...sorry)
[23:53] <fae{NR}> n/p
[23:53] <LadyMist> 'S'
END
[22:41] <ntalia> if you do not wish your name used in the log, please email myself or NoirRose of mizu or msg us.
[22:41] <NoirRose> Or fae.
[22:41] <NoirRose> Or Raven, even.
[22:43] <ntalia> okay, how important an issue is safety in your play?
[22:43] <NoirRose> I would have to say very
[22:44] <ntalia> and question two, how do you define safety?
[22:44] <LadyMist> if you can't at least do your best to keep a sub safe
[22:44] * NoirRose smiles
[22:45] <ntalia> that is fine. much of this is gut level reaction.
[22:45] * NoirRose nods
[22:45] <fae{NR}> safety is preventing either the sub or the Dominant from being hurt to a greater extent than what was intended
[22:46] <LadyMist> exactly
[22:46] <fae{NR}> as for the first question, the most important during play
[22:47] <LadyMist> so how can edgier things be safe?
[22:47] <LadyMist> like blood play...knife play...breath play...
[22:47] <fae{NR}> it depends on the people involved, knife play with someone who a) is familiar with blades and/or anatomy and b) has medical training is safe, especially when compared to the people experimenting with no real knowledge
[22:48] <fae{NR}> er...replace safe with safer actually
[22:49] <fae{NR}> as with safety in any play, having one or both/all have some basic medical training and the ability to call for help increases the level of safety drastically
[22:49] * LadyMist thinks of those with training in blades and how to kill
[22:49] <LadyMist> would they not be safe in how NOT to?
[22:49] <fae{NR}> Lady, including that. Think, if someone is trained on where to cut for the most damage, they know the places to _avoid_ cutting
[22:49] * LadyMist agrees
[22:50] * LadyMist is living with one who KNOWS how to damage...'S"
[22:50] * NoirRose nods
[22:50] <fae{NR}> what are some basic safety precautions that people can take for any form of play?
[22:50] <NoirRose> Know where the keys/scissors/telephone for 911 is
[22:50] <LadyMist> CPR....
[22:50] <LadyMist> exactly
[22:51] * LadyMist agrees with NR
[22:51] <ntalia> i think #1 is knowing who you are playing with. i hear so much about people meeting through parties or irc, and not really knowing the person they're involved with.
[22:51] <ntalia> i can't imagine being with a stranger
[22:51] <fae{NR}> very good point talia
[22:51] <LadyMist> avoid anything that alters the conscious...like drugs...alcohol...ETC
[22:52] <heavn{A}> i know this will prolly sound too basic, but working out clear means of communication regardless of the stage of bondage/gaggin or type of play
[22:52] <LadyMist> (exception is the meds like raven is on....and being with someone who KNOWS how you are...)
[22:52] <fae{NR}> heavn, also a very good point, sometimes forgotten by "experienced" people because it's so basic they don't go over it before things get to a point where it's required
[22:52] <LadyMist> but trust is first...
[22:53] * heavn{A} nods
[22:53] <LadyMist> if you can't trust that the Other is going to respect your communication
[22:54] <LadyMist> how can edgier stuff be made MORE safe?
[22:55] <fae{NR}> depends on what type of edgier stuff (physical vs. psychological), but in all areas, study and research
[22:55] <LadyMist> I was speaking of the physical...'S'
[22:55] <heavn{A}> knowing a person's particular physical condition(s) - which certainly is part of knowing who you are playing with
[22:55] <LadyMist> I even fear to tread into the psychological...
[22:55] <fae{NR}> *gryn* but psychological is also part of it (mental & emotional) and some prefer those styles of edge play
[22:56] <LadyMist> yes... are we getting into humiliation?
[22:56] <fae{NR}> but research on physical is also very important, know where not to cut, know the limits on asphyxiation to not cause damage, know the detremental effects and when they set in for long term bondage, etc.
[22:57] <fae{NR}> if someone takes the conversation there, yes, if not maybe not this time
[22:57] <fae{NR}> what are some danger signs to constantly look for (physical signs are primary, but others are also good)?
[22:58] <LadyMist> I always find it broadening that what I find embarassing ( in a good way ) does not bother someone else...
[22:59] <fae{NR}> *gryn* and how sometimes things that seem very embarassing at first become easy to accept and don't become embarassing anymore
[23:00] * LadyMist laughs and AGREES
[23:00] * NoirRose smiles
[23:00] <heavn{A}> may i ask, are there recommended resources for reading on the topic of safety in play?
[23:01] <ntalia> yes, there is a very good book S&M 101.
[23:01] <LadyMist> ahhh..depends on what you are playing..
[23:01] <ntalia> and another book called Other Loving.
[23:01] <LadyMist> I didn't like SM101
[23:01] <ntalia> if you go to the channel webpage, you'll find some articles as well as reading material
[23:01] <heavn{A}> even in "Screw the Roses, Send me the Thorns" there are helpful ideas on safety in spanking and such
[23:01] <ntalia> and some things that will point you to other on line articles
[23:02] <heavn{A}> thank you ntalia <s>
[23:02] <LadyMist> seemed like (for a BUNCH) that it was putting out acceptable and safe ways to play with people you didn
[23:02] <LadyMist> 't know
[23:02] <LadyMist> I did like "Screw...."
[23:02] * heavn{A} grinz
[23:02] * chens{LM} wants to read that one
[23:03] <LadyMist> Will get it back from Jackal and send it...
[23:03] * chens{LM} grins... or you could wait til im there
[23:04] <LadyMist> I could at that...'S"
[23:04] <LadyMist> safety on line? how is that accomplishe?
[23:04] <LadyMist> d?
[23:05] <chens{LM}> dont give out personal information to everyone ...
[23:05] <LadyMist> 'S'
[23:05] <LadyMist> are safe calls really that safe?
[23:05] <fae{NR}> keep in mind that the person behind the other nick is a person and has feelings as real as yours
[23:06] <chens{LM}> i think safe calls can be safe... *has been a safe call*
[23:08] <LadyMist> but....what would the police do in the event a safe call is use?
[23:09] <chens{LM}> i think they would go there. all you would need to say is you were talking to a friend on the phone and they asked you to call for help that they are in trouble... let the police question them when they get there. ins tead of you on the phone
[23:09] <fae{NR}> depends on the situation, first get everyone out of any kind of danger
[23:09] * heavn{A} smiles and nods to fae and ntalia
[23:09] <fae{NR}> then ask lots of questions
[23:10] <LadyMist> But the police will Do NOTHING until thier 24 / 48 hour missing person criteria is met...
[23:10] <LadyMist> so how can a safe call protect?
[23:10] <fae{NR}> if you call and say there's trouble at such and such they have to respond
[23:11] <chens{LM}> dont say its missing person. just say someoen at that addres s need s help...
[23:11] <fae{NR}> or, rather than call police, call a good friend w/ lifestyle knowledge
[23:11] <LadyMist> No....they won't...unless the person at the addy asks for help from the police..
[23:11] <LadyMist> and they can?
[23:12] <NoirRose> That depends on the police in your area.
[23:12] <NoirRose> And they will go if you say that there's an emergency in that addy
[23:13] <LadyMist> and when they ask what emergency?
[23:15] <fae{NR}> sum it up as sucinct as possible, and as neutral "someone got stuck, is hurt and we can't get him/her unstuck"
[23:15] <chens{LM}> say i dunno... they screamed and the phone got disconnected ,,, HURRY
[23:15] * NoirRose nods
[23:15] <LadyMist> (playing devils advocate here...please don't take my head off)
[23:16] <NoirRose> Or just say you hear screams
[23:16] <LadyMist> Does anyone trust a safecall over say...intuition?
[23:16] <NoirRose> They'll treat it as an anonymous call of a domestic
[23:16] <LadyMist> your gut reaction that someone is not safe to play with?
[23:16] <NoirRose> And cops check out domestic disturbances fairly quickly.
[23:16] <ntalia> no, intuition first, i would think. but i think i would want to have all the safety tools in place that i could
[23:16] <chens{LM}> no... if my intuition said they were in danger and their words said they were okay id go with my feelings
[23:16] * NoirRose nods at chens
[23:16] <NoirRose> Trust your feelings
[23:16] * LadyMist has been in domestic situations....here...and you are luckly if they get checked oput beofre tomorrow...
[23:16] * LadyMist smiles...and knows how well that does NOT work here...wishing our police were better.
[23:17] * chens{LM} had the police show up bc the people up stairs thought someone was gettin beat and it was just sex... made me come to the door and tell him myself i was okay... i almost DIED...i was so embarassed
[23:17] <LadyMist> so if outside influences don't work...and personal judgement is skewed...can the community help at all? if so how?
[23:19] <chens{LM}> *doesnt know*
[23:20] <heavn{A}> in order for say.. a neighbor..to be able to assist you.. wont they have to have some knowlege of what you are doing (ie.. i participate in d/s activities)?
[23:20] <heavn{A}> that is.. if this person were a type of safe call...
[23:20] <chens{LM}> i dont even know my neighbors names here...
[23:21] <LadyMist> community not only being your neighbors...but the leather community at large...
[23:21] * heavn{A} nods
[23:22] <LadyMist> education? information? blacklisting?
[23:22] <LadyMist> what would work?
[23:22] <heavn{A}> is this type of thing addressed in munches?
[23:22] <NoirRose> Sometimes
[23:23] * LadyMist relies heavily on dominants doing what they should...
[23:23] * LadyMist has never been to a munch...here in the deep south .... that wasn't a social....
[23:23] <LadyMist> and is that safe?
[23:23] <chens{LM}> has never been to a munch eiter
[23:23] <chens{LM}> either even *G*
[23:24] <LadyMist> for the local groups to subscribe to just social activity?
[23:24] <heavn{A}> then may i ask, how does the local leather community communicate.. if not through munches? (not on a munch kick.. just wanting to know their value in this community)
[23:25] <LadyMist> ?? I wish I knew....
[23:25] <LadyMist> I am more into Word of mouth....
[23:25] <LadyMist> ie....he hurt me...just thought you would like to know...
[23:26] <heavn{A}> LadyMist.. are there those Dominants and subs that You are in contant with regularly in Your area?
[23:26] <heavn{A}> are in contact..
[23:26] <chens{LM}> me agrees about word of mouth
[23:26] <LadyMist> yes...
[23:26] <LadyMist> has been in the area ...and in contact...for almost 10 years now. ....
[23:27] <LadyMist> and STILL can't stand to see dominants take advantage of subs
[23:27] <heavn{A}> and it is predominantly through word of mouth that You know the reputations/actions of O/others
[23:28] <LadyMist> not through word of mouth here...but through what I have seen in play...
[23:28] <LadyMist> munches are like the single bars of the BDSM world here....NOT saying it is like this everywhere...
[23:28] * heavn{A} nods
[23:29] <heavn{A}> i was hoping it was different
[23:29] <LadyMist> 'S' it is the same where you are?
[23:29] <fae{NR}> i've been to some in Niagra Falls and Cleveland, OH that wern't like that
[23:29] <LadyMist> YEAAAHHHH...
[23:30] <heavn{A}> i am not involved in a munch. i had a different impression of their purpose and function, Ma'am
[23:32] <LadyMist> I do too...
[23:32] <LadyMist> I would like to see them use for education and information..
[23:33] <chens{LM}> are they just to meet people then?
[23:33] <LadyMist> unfortunately it si not that way here.
[23:33] <fae{NR}> i think the people who organize munches and there intent have a lot to do with how they turn out...i know when Mistress organized one (the one in NF) it was a place where we could all just get together and chat, i think it lead to one party, but it wasn't a pick up funciton
[23:33] <LadyMist> so....how can newbies prtect themselves?
[23:33] <LadyMist> 'S' excellent...
[23:34] <fae{NR}> newbies on the net can do things like here, get in and just talk and listen, ask questions from many different sources and weigh what they here with what they feel
[23:34] <chens{LM}> go to them with some one you trust..
[23:34] * heavn{A} agrees with chens{LM}
[23:34] * LadyMist smiles
[23:35] <LadyMist> so does the S in SSC mean something different for everyone?
[23:35] <heavn{A}> <-- doesnt know what SSC means
[23:35] <fae{NR}> Safe Sane and Concentual is what i've always heard/told/been taught/taught
[23:36] <fae{NR}> (with apoligies for mispellings)
[23:36] <LadyMist> Foe example...I ogt pierced for our anniversary...
[23:36] <LadyMist> and some people do not consider piercings safe...
[23:37] <volsung> depends on where LadyMist...
[23:37] <heavn{A}> and with WHAT!
[23:37] <LadyMist> who / what constitutes "safe" in safe sane and consensual...
[23:37] * fae{NR} is looking forward to her piercings when she can afford them *
[23:37] <LadyMist> nipples...
[23:37] <fae{NR}> both parties
[23:37] <chens{LM}> the individuals involved....
[23:37] * fae{NR} purrrs at LadyMist, that's what i'm going for when i can *
[23:37] <LadyMist> and with sterile needles and Noibium rings
[23:37] * chens{LM} wants her belly button pierced
[23:37] <LadyMist> forgive my typos it is late here...LOL
[23:38] <heavn{A}> so to a certain extent, the definition of "safe" is closely related to the boundaries/limits of parties involved?
[23:39] <chens{LM}> i believe so...
[23:39] <fae{NR}> very true
[23:39] <fae{NR}> i consider bloodsports very unsafe (but then again, i have a phobia of knives), while others consider minor knife play (barely drawing blood) safe and fun
[23:40] * volsung thinks safe is a subjective term. whos only boundries are set by the ppl involved and enough common sense not to kill each other off
[23:40] <heavn{A}> Eeep!
[23:41] * LadyMist likes knifes...(member I am a switch...)
[23:41] * fae{NR} shudders and gryns *
[23:41] <LadyMist> I know how to use them...and when
[23:41] <fae{NR}> ykiokbnmk
[23:41] <heavn{A}> i would hope the limits would be drawn in a little tighter than "not to kill each other off"
[23:41] <LadyMist> and liked them used on me...
[23:41] * volsung loves knives with a passion, and collects them like kids collect baseball cards
[23:42] <LadyMist> ykiokbnmk???
[23:42] <LadyMist> OK...I am clueless
[23:42] <LadyMist> and not afriad to admit it...LOL
[23:42] <Abraxas> ykiokbnmk = your kink is ok but not my kink
[23:42] <chens{LM}> im also clueless *giggles*
[23:42] <chens{LM}> ah
[23:42] <fae{NR}> your kink is ok but not my kink
[23:43] <volsung> o
[23:43] <fae{NR}> sowwy *sheepish gryn*
[23:43] <heavn{A}> is that anything like "my kink's better than Your kink?"
[23:43] <volsung> lol heavn{A}
[23:43] <heavn{A}> hehehe
[23:43] * Abraxas laughs
[23:43] <fae{NR}> i stay away from those heavn *gryn* no OTP (One True Path) mentality here
[23:44] * fae{NR} chuckles *
[23:44] * heavn{A} flicks her bic and rasies it high
[23:44] * chens{LM} stares at the flame... watching it dance...
[23:44] <fae{NR}> *aloof tone* although my tv kink is much more stylish
[23:44] * fae{NR} rofl *
[23:44] <volsung> lol
[23:44] * NoirRose giggles at her fae
[23:44] <LadyMist> 'S' ok...
[23:45] <LadyMist> sooo? have we missed any of the really inportant safe questions?
[23:46] <heavn{A}> ok.. sounding the total newbie here... could W/we quickly discuss safe words?
[23:46] <NoirRose> sure
[23:47] <fae{NR}> sorry, am in a good mood tonight, do ask/discuss away
[23:47] <heavn{A}> <--- assumes that "STOP THAT!" is prolly not a good safe word
[23:47] <fae{NR}> heavn, for generic safewords, may people use the stop light theme
[23:47] <chens{LM}> i use sandman... something im not likely to say less i mean it *G*
[23:47] <fae{NR}> red = stop now, get me out
[23:48] <fae{NR}> yellow = slow down, that's too much but i don't need out because of it yet
[23:48] * NoirRose hears fae typing and waits to comment
[23:48] <fae{NR}> green = go ahead and continue/restart
[23:48] * LadyMist smiles at NR
[23:48] <heavn{A}> restart
[23:48] * NoirRose grins at LM
[23:48] <fae{NR}> say a scene was "yellow"ed, for too much pain/stimuli
[23:48] <fae{NR}> then you can "green" it to get it started again
[23:49] * heavn{A} nods.. thank you, fae{NR}
[23:49] <LadyMist> but a sub normally will not remember anywords in subapce....what then?
[23:49] <fae{NR}> (when pain levels go back to tolerable)
[23:49] <MissMyra> thats when a Dom does what they do best
[23:49] <fae{NR}> then it falls on the dominant putting/keeping the sub in subspace to check all the subtle signs
[23:49] <MissMyra> and steps in
[23:49] <LadyMist> how can a sub be assured of safe...how can a dom too?
[23:49] <fae{NR}> blue/cold fingers
[23:49] <LadyMist> 'S'
[23:49] <MissMyra> coz they are in control
[23:49] <chens{LM}> yeek
[23:49] <fae{NR}> quickness of breath close to hyperventilating
[23:50] * LadyMist throws out the question and listens...
[23:50] <fae{NR}> back off if the sub is reacting to things that you are not doing
[23:51] <chens{LM}> the dominant knowing the sub... and reacting if the sub is acting... different
[23:51] <LadyMist> so if a sub is NOT with a dominant they trust...
[23:51] <heavn{A}> could you please expalain "back off if the sub...."
[23:51] <fae{NR}> for subspace, the Dominant has to know the sub well
[23:51] <heavn{A}> (expalain... aCK! typo hell again)
[23:51] * chens{LM} giggles
[23:52] <fae{NR}> well, say you were in a flogging episode,
[23:52] <LadyMist> ahhh...during subspace...mine at least...a dominat can say "I am going to cut off your arm now"
[23:52] <fae{NR}> then the sub would normally flinch from expected flogging from behind
[23:52] <LadyMist> and I will purrr "OKKKKKKKKk"
[23:52] <fae{NR}> but say they start whipping their head like they were avoiding blows to the head
[23:53] <fae{NR}> (cringing flinches)
[23:53] <fae{NR}> reactions that would not be caused by what you are doing
[23:53] <heavn{A}> i follow you now.. thank you fae{NR}
[23:53] <LadyMist> (being literal...sorry)
[23:53] <fae{NR}> n/p
[23:53] <LadyMist> 'S'
END
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