|
Session
Start: Sun May 30 22:41:32 1999
[22:41] <ntalia> if you do not wish your name used in
the log, please email myself or NoirRose of mizu or msg us.
[22:41] <NoirRose> Or fae.
[22:41] <NoirRose> Or Raven, even.
[22:43] <ntalia> okay, how important an issue is safety
in your play?
[22:43] <NoirRose> I would have to say very
[22:44] <ntalia> and question two, how do you define
safety?
[22:44] <LadyMist> if you can't at least do your best
to keep a sub safe
[22:44] * NoirRose smiles
[22:45] <ntalia> that is fine. much of this is gut level
reaction.
[22:45] * NoirRose nods
[22:45] <fae{NR}> safety is preventing either the sub
or the Dominant from being hurt to a greater extent than what was intended
[22:46] <LadyMist> exactly
[22:46] <fae{NR}> as for the first question, the most
important during play
[22:47] <LadyMist> so how can edgier things be safe?
[22:47] <LadyMist> like blood play...knife play...breath
play...
[22:47] <fae{NR}> it depends on the people involved,
knife play with someone who a) is familiar with blades and/or anatomy
and b) has medical training is safe, especially when compared to the people
experimenting with no real knowledge
[22:48] <fae{NR}> er...replace safe with safer actually
[22:49] <fae{NR}> as with safety in any play, having
one or both/all have some basic medical training and the ability to call
for help increases the level of safety drastically
[22:49] * LadyMist thinks of those with training in blades
and how to kill
[22:49] <LadyMist> would they not be safe in how
NOT to?
[22:49] <fae{NR}> Lady, including that. Think,
if someone is trained on where to cut for the most damage, they know the
places to _avoid_ cutting
[22:49] * LadyMist agrees
[22:50] * LadyMist is living with one who KNOWS how to damage...'S"
[22:50] * NoirRose nods
[22:50] <fae{NR}> what are some basic safety precautions
that people can take for any form of play?
[22:50] <NoirRose> Know where the keys/scissors/telephone
for 911 is
[22:50] <LadyMist> CPR....
[22:50] <LadyMist> exactly
[22:51] * LadyMist agrees with NR
[22:51] <ntalia> i think #1 is knowing who you are playing
with. i hear so much about people meeting through parties or irc, and
not really knowing the person they're involved with.
[22:51] <ntalia> i can't imagine being with a stranger
[22:51] <fae{NR}> very good point talia
[22:51] <LadyMist> avoid anything that alters the conscious...like
drugs...alcohol...ETC
[22:52] <heavn{A}> i know this will prolly sound too
basic, but working out clear means of communication regardless of the
stage of bondage/gaggin or type of play
[22:52] <LadyMist> (exception is the meds like raven
is on....and being with someone who KNOWS how you are...)
[22:52] <fae{NR}> heavn, also a very good point, sometimes
forgotten by "experienced" people because it's so basic they don't go
over it before things get to a point where it's required
[22:52] <LadyMist> but trust is first...
[22:53] * heavn{A} nods
[22:53] <LadyMist> if you can't trust that the Other
is going to respect your communication
[22:54] <LadyMist> how can edgier stuff be made MORE
safe?
[22:55] <fae{NR}> depends on what type of edgier stuff
(physical vs. psychological), but in all areas, study and research
[22:55] <LadyMist> I was speaking of the physical...'S'
[22:55] <heavn{A}> knowing a person's particular physical
condition(s) - which certainly is part of knowing who you are playing
with
[22:55] <LadyMist> I even fear to tread into the psychological...
[22:55] <fae{NR}> *gryn* but psychological is also part
of it (mental & emotional) and some prefer those styles of edge play
[22:56] <LadyMist> yes... are we getting into humiliation?
[22:56] <fae{NR}> but research on physical is also very
important, know where not to cut, know the limits on asphyxiation to not
cause damage, know the detremental effects and when they set in for long
term bondage, etc.
[22:57] <fae{NR}> if someone takes the conversation there,
yes, if not maybe not this time
[22:57] <fae{NR}> what are some danger signs to constantly
look for (physical signs are primary, but others are also good)?
[22:58] <LadyMist> I always find it broadening that what
I find embarassing ( in a good way ) does not bother someone else...
[22:59] <fae{NR}> *gryn* and how sometimes things that
seem very embarassing at first become easy to accept and don't become
embarassing anymore
[23:00] * LadyMist laughs and AGREES
[23:00] * NoirRose smiles
[23:00] <heavn{A}> may i ask, are there recommended resources
for reading on the topic of safety in play?
[23:01] <ntalia> yes, there is a very good book S&M
101.
[23:01] <LadyMist> ahhh..depends on what you are playing..
[23:01] <ntalia> and another book called Other Loving.
[23:01] <LadyMist> I didn't like SM101
[23:01] <ntalia> if you go to the channel webpage, you'll
find some articles as well as reading material
[23:01] <heavn{A}> even in "Screw the Roses, Send me
the Thorns" there are helpful ideas on safety in spanking and such
[23:01] <ntalia> and some things that will point you
to other on line articles
[23:02] <heavn{A}> thank you ntalia <s>
[23:02] <LadyMist> seemed like (for a BUNCH) that
it was putting out acceptable and safe ways to play with people you didn
[23:02] <LadyMist> 't know
[23:02] <LadyMist> I did like "Screw...."
[23:02] * heavn{A} grinz
[23:02] * chens{LM} wants to read that one
[23:03] <LadyMist> Will get it back from Jackal and send
it...
[23:03] * chens{LM} grins... or you could wait til im there
[23:04] <LadyMist> I could at that...'S"
[23:04] <LadyMist> safety on line? how is that accomplishe?
[23:04] <LadyMist> d?
[23:05] <chens{LM}> dont give out personal information
to everyone ...
[23:05] <LadyMist> 'S'
[23:05] <LadyMist> are safe calls really that safe?
[23:05] <fae{NR}> keep in mind that the person behind
the other nick is a person and has feelings as real as yours
[23:06] <chens{LM}> i think safe calls can be safe...
*has been a safe call*
[23:08] <LadyMist> but....what would the police do in
the event a safe call is use?
[23:09] <chens{LM}> i think they would go there. all
you would need to say is you were talking to a friend on the phone and
they asked you to call for help that they are in trouble... let the police
question them when they get there. ins tead of you on the phone
[23:09] <fae{NR}> depends on the situation, first get
everyone out of any kind of danger
[23:09] * heavn{A} smiles and nods to fae and ntalia
[23:09] <fae{NR}> then ask lots of questions
[23:10] <LadyMist> But the police will Do NOTHING until
thier 24 / 48 hour missing person criteria is met...
[23:10] <LadyMist> so how can a safe call protect?
[23:10] <fae{NR}> if you call and say there's trouble
at such and such they have to respond
[23:11] <chens{LM}> dont say its missing person. just
say someoen at that addres s need s help...
[23:11] <fae{NR}> or, rather than call police, call a
good friend w/ lifestyle knowledge
[23:11] <LadyMist> No....they won't...unless the person
at the addy asks for help from the police..
[23:11] <LadyMist> and they can?
[23:12] <NoirRose> That depends on the police in your
area.
[23:12] <NoirRose> And they will go if you say that there's
an emergency in that addy
[23:13] <LadyMist> and when they ask what emergency?
[23:15] <fae{NR}> sum it up as sucinct as possible, and
as neutral "someone got stuck, is hurt and we can't get him/her unstuck"
[23:15] <chens{LM}> say i dunno... they screamed and
the phone got disconnected ,,, HURRY
[23:15] * NoirRose nods
[23:15] <LadyMist> (playing devils advocate here...please
don't take my head off)
[23:16] <NoirRose> Or just say you hear screams
[23:16] <LadyMist> Does anyone trust a safecall over
say...intuition?
[23:16] <NoirRose> They'll treat it as an anonymous call
of a domestic
[23:16] <LadyMist> your gut reaction that someone is
not safe to play with?
[23:16] <NoirRose> And cops check out domestic disturbances
fairly quickly.
[23:16] <ntalia> no, intuition first, i would think.
but i think i would want to have all the safety tools in place that i
could
[23:16] <chens{LM}> no... if my intuition said they were
in danger and their words said they were okay id go with my feelings
[23:16] * NoirRose nods at chens
[23:16] <NoirRose> Trust your feelings
[23:16] * LadyMist has been in domestic situations....here...and
you are luckly if they get checked oput beofre tomorrow...
[23:16] * LadyMist smiles...and knows how well that does
NOT work here...wishing our police were better.
[23:17] * chens{LM} had the police show up bc the people
up stairs thought someone was gettin beat and it was just sex... made
me come to the door and tell him myself i was okay... i almost DIED...i
was so embarassed
[23:17] <LadyMist> so if outside influences don't work...and
personal judgement is skewed...can the community help at all? if
so how?
[23:19] <chens{LM}> *doesnt know*
[23:20] <heavn{A}> in order for say.. a neighbor..to
be able to assist you.. wont they have to have some knowlege of what you
are doing (ie.. i participate in d/s activities)?
[23:20] <heavn{A}> that is.. if this person were a type
of safe call...
[23:20] <chens{LM}> i dont even know my neighbors names
here...
[23:21] <LadyMist> community not only being your neighbors...but
the leather community at large...
[23:21] * heavn{A} nods
[23:22] <LadyMist> education? information? blacklisting?
[23:22] <LadyMist> what would work?
[23:22] <heavn{A}> is this type of thing addressed in
munches?
[23:22] <NoirRose> Sometimes
[23:23] * LadyMist relies heavily on dominants doing what
they should...
[23:23] * LadyMist has never been to a munch...here in the
deep south .... that wasn't a social....
[23:23] <LadyMist> and is that safe?
[23:23] <chens{LM}> has never been to a munch eiter
[23:23] <chens{LM}> either even *G*
[23:24] <LadyMist> for the local groups to subscribe
to just social activity?
[23:24] <heavn{A}> then may i ask, how does the local
leather community communicate.. if not through munches? (not on a munch
kick.. just wanting to know their value in this community)
[23:25] <LadyMist> ?? I wish I knew....
[23:25] <LadyMist> I am more into Word of mouth....
[23:25] <LadyMist> ie....he hurt me...just thought you
would like to know...
[23:26] <heavn{A}> LadyMist.. are there those Dominants
and subs that You are in contant with regularly in Your area?
[23:26] <heavn{A}> are in contact..
[23:26] <chens{LM}> me agrees about word of mouth
[23:26] <LadyMist> yes...
[23:26] <LadyMist> has been in the area ...and in contact...for
almost 10 years now. ....
[23:27] <LadyMist> and STILL can't stand to see dominants
take advantage of subs
[23:27] <heavn{A}> and it is predominantly through word
of mouth that You know the reputations/actions of O/others
[23:28] <LadyMist> not through word of mouth here...but
through what I have seen in play...
[23:28] <LadyMist> munches are like the single bars of
the BDSM world here....NOT saying it is like this everywhere...
[23:28] * heavn{A} nods
[23:29] <heavn{A}> i was hoping it was different
[23:29] <LadyMist> 'S' it is the same where you
are?
[23:29] <fae{NR}> i've been to some in Niagra Falls and
Cleveland, OH that wern't like that
[23:29] <LadyMist> YEAAAHHHH...
[23:30] <heavn{A}> i am not involved in a munch. i had
a different impression of their purpose and function, Ma'am
[23:32] <LadyMist> I do too...
[23:32] <LadyMist> I would like to see them use for education
and information..
[23:33] <chens{LM}> are they just to meet people then?
[23:33] <LadyMist> unfortunately it si not that way here.
[23:33] <fae{NR}> i think the people who organize munches
and there intent have a lot to do with how they turn out...i know when
Mistress organized one (the one in NF) it was a place where we could all
just get together and chat, i think it lead to one party, but it wasn't
a pick up funciton
[23:33] <LadyMist> so....how can newbies prtect themselves?
[23:33] <LadyMist> 'S' excellent...
[23:34] <fae{NR}> newbies on the net can do things like
here, get in and just talk and listen, ask questions from many different
sources and weigh what they here with what they feel
[23:34] <chens{LM}> go to them with some one you trust..
[23:34] * heavn{A} agrees with chens{LM}
[23:34] * LadyMist smiles
[23:35] <LadyMist> so does the S in SSC mean something
different for everyone?
[23:35] <heavn{A}> <-- doesnt know what SSC means
[23:35] <fae{NR}> Safe Sane and Concentual is what i've
always heard/told/been taught/taught
[23:36] <fae{NR}> (with apoligies for mispellings)
[23:36] <LadyMist> Foe example...I ogt pierced for our
anniversary...
[23:36] <LadyMist> and some people do not consider piercings
safe...
[23:37] <volsung> depends on where LadyMist...
[23:37] <heavn{A}> and with WHAT!
[23:37] <LadyMist> who / what constitutes "safe" in safe
sane and consensual...
[23:37] * fae{NR} is looking forward to her piercings when
she can afford them *
[23:37] <LadyMist> nipples...
[23:37] <fae{NR}> both parties
[23:37] <chens{LM}> the individuals involved....
[23:37] * fae{NR} purrrs at LadyMist, that's what i'm going
for when i can *
[23:37] <LadyMist> and with sterile needles and Noibium
rings
[23:37] * chens{LM} wants her belly button pierced
[23:37] <LadyMist> forgive my typos it is late here...LOL
[23:38] <heavn{A}> so to a certain extent, the definition
of "safe" is closely related to the boundaries/limits of parties involved?
[23:39] <chens{LM}> i believe so...
[23:39] <fae{NR}> very true
[23:39] <fae{NR}> i consider bloodsports very unsafe
(but then again, i have a phobia of knives), while others consider minor
knife play (barely drawing blood) safe and fun
[23:40] * volsung thinks safe is a subjective term. whos
only boundries are set by the ppl involved and enough common sense not
to kill each other off
[23:40] <heavn{A}> Eeep!
[23:41] * LadyMist likes knifes...(member I am a switch...)
[23:41] * fae{NR} shudders and gryns *
[23:41] <LadyMist> I know how to use them...and when
[23:41] <fae{NR}> ykiokbnmk
[23:41] <heavn{A}> i would hope the limits would be drawn
in a little tighter than "not to kill each other off"
[23:41] <LadyMist> and liked them used on me...
[23:41] * volsung loves knives with a passion, and collects
them like kids collect baseball cards
[23:42] <LadyMist> ykiokbnmk???
[23:42] <LadyMist> OK...I am clueless
[23:42] <LadyMist> and not afriad to admit it...LOL
[23:42] <Abraxas> ykiokbnmk = your kink is ok but not
my kink
[23:42] <chens{LM}> im also clueless *giggles*
[23:42] <chens{LM}> ah
[23:42] <fae{NR}> your kink is ok but not my kink
[23:43] <volsung> o
[23:43] <fae{NR}> sowwy *sheepish gryn*
[23:43] <heavn{A}> is that anything like "my kink's better
than Your kink?"
[23:43] <volsung> lol heavn{A}
[23:43] <heavn{A}> hehehe
[23:43] * Abraxas laughs
[23:43] <fae{NR}> i stay away from those heavn *gryn*
no OTP (One True Path) mentality here
[23:44] * fae{NR} chuckles *
[23:44] * heavn{A} flicks her bic and rasies it high
[23:44] * chens{LM} stares at the flame... watching it dance...
[23:44] <fae{NR}> *aloof tone* although my tv kink is
much more stylish
[23:44] * fae{NR} rofl *
[23:44] <volsung> lol
[23:44] * NoirRose giggles at her fae
[23:44] <LadyMist> 'S' ok...
[23:45] <LadyMist> sooo? have we missed any of
the really inportant safe questions?
[23:46] <heavn{A}> ok.. sounding the total newbie here...
could W/we quickly discuss safe words?
[23:46] <NoirRose> sure
[23:47] <fae{NR}> sorry, am in a good mood tonight, do
ask/discuss away
[23:47] <heavn{A}> <--- assumes that "STOP THAT!"
is prolly not a good safe word
[23:47] <fae{NR}> heavn, for generic safewords, may people
use the stop light theme
[23:47] <chens{LM}> i use sandman... something im not
likely to say less i mean it *G*
[23:47] <fae{NR}> red = stop now, get me out
[23:48] <fae{NR}> yellow = slow down, that's too much
but i don't need out because of it yet
[23:48] * NoirRose hears fae typing and waits to comment
[23:48] <fae{NR}> green = go ahead and continue/restart
[23:48] * LadyMist smiles at NR
[23:48] <heavn{A}> restart
[23:48] * NoirRose grins at LM
[23:48] <fae{NR}> say a scene was "yellow"ed, for too
much pain/stimuli
[23:48] <fae{NR}> then you can "green" it to get it started
again
[23:49] * heavn{A} nods.. thank you, fae{NR}
[23:49] <LadyMist> but a sub normally will not remember
anywords in subapce....what then?
[23:49] <fae{NR}> (when pain levels go back to tolerable)
[23:49] <MissMyra> thats when a Dom does what they do
best
[23:49] <fae{NR}> then it falls on the dominant putting/keeping
the sub in subspace to check all the subtle signs
[23:49] <MissMyra> and steps in
[23:49] <LadyMist> how can a sub be assured of safe...how
can a dom too?
[23:49] <fae{NR}> blue/cold fingers
[23:49] <LadyMist> 'S'
[23:49] <MissMyra> coz they are in control
[23:49] <chens{LM}> yeek
[23:49] <fae{NR}> quickness of breath close to hyperventilating
[23:50] * LadyMist throws out the question and listens...
[23:50] <fae{NR}> back off if the sub is reacting to
things that you are not doing
[23:51] <chens{LM}> the dominant knowing the sub... and
reacting if the sub is acting... different
[23:51] <LadyMist> so if a sub is NOT with a dominant
they trust...
[23:51] <heavn{A}> could you please expalain "back off
if the sub...."
[23:51] <fae{NR}> for subspace, the Dominant has to know
the sub well
[23:51] <heavn{A}> (expalain... aCK! typo hell again)
[23:51] * chens{LM} giggles
[23:52] <fae{NR}> well, say you were in a flogging episode,
[23:52] <LadyMist> ahhh...during subspace...mine at least...a
dominat can say "I am going to cut off your arm now"
[23:52] <fae{NR}> then the sub would normally flinch
from expected flogging from behind
[23:52] <LadyMist> and I will purrr "OKKKKKKKKk"
[23:52] <fae{NR}> but say they start whipping their head
like they were avoiding blows to the head
[23:53] <fae{NR}> (cringing flinches)
[23:53] <fae{NR}> reactions that would not be caused
by what you are doing
[23:53] <heavn{A}> i follow you now.. thank you fae{NR}
[23:53] <LadyMist> (being literal...sorry)
[23:53] <fae{NR}> n/p
[23:53] <LadyMist> 'S'
END
|