Presents:
BDSM Discussion 16
Toys On
A Budget
All Comments Posted Here With Permission Of The Participants
<fae{NR}>
Welcome to LnR's weekly discussion on BDSM topics
<fae{NR}> the rules of the discussion are as follows...
<fae{NR}> You must be t least 18 years of age to attend...if you are not at lesat 18 you will be kicked and banned...
<fae{NR}> be polite when speaking... no flaming (which means insults) if you flame you will be kicked and possible banned...
<fae{NR}> The log will be posted in it's entirety to the leather and roses web site..nicknames will not be changed unless I recieve an email requesting such....mail to webmaster@leathernroses.com
<fae{NR}> (unless raven receives an e-mail that is)
<fae{NR}> If I recieve no email requseting that your nick not be used, this will be taken as consent to use your nickname as it appears in the logs., on the web site
<fae{NR}> (again raven, not i)
<fae{NR}> No trolling will be tolerated..trolling is the advertising of yourself, wants needs. asking for cyber sex etc. If you troll you will be kicked...this is a discussion night not a singles night
<fae{NR}> Tonight's topic is BDSM on a Shoestring Budget
<fae{NR}> NoirRose is mostly going to be running the show tonight, AlstrBlack was supposed to but he seems to be having connection difficulties
[22:50] * NoirRose is going to try, at least.
<fae{NR}> okay, this is going to differ somewhat from usual discussion nights as this is a different topic than usual
[22:52] <ntalia> is it going to be show and tell?
<fae{NR}> a lot of things will be sharing ideas of various toys that would cost lotsa $$$ in the stores made with household or craft type stuff
[22:52] <NoirRose> Not this time around
[22:52] * NoirRose grins
<fae{NR}> more a describe and tell maybe?
[22:52] <NoirRose> Describe and tell, maybe?
[22:52] * wyspers laughs...
[22:53] * _mizu_ giggles
[22:53] <NoirRose> fae, out of my head!
<fae{NR}> so, anyone want to start with a favorite toy of theirs, or ask advice on how to make something or other (and questions will be discussed as they come up...probably regarding safety type stuff)
[22:53] <^Ming> a plastic cigar tube... fill it with water... frezze it... and use it to play with your submissive
[22:54] <NoirRose> Who here makes their own toys for the most part?
[22:54] <_mizu_> well the best thing if you have a army surpluse store near by it to get a spoool of para cord
[22:54] <wyspers> brrr
[22:54] <_mizu_> with it you can make ton's of item's (giggle)
[22:54] <NoirRose> Tack shops.
[22:56] <NoirRose> mizu, what sorts of items have you made with para cord?
[22:57] <_mizu_> humm, out of one roll got 5 floggers of various leangth's and a nice single tail
[22:57] <wyspers> how are the floggers? I don't know what para cord is like exactly...
[22:58] <_mizu_> it's a green nylon cord use in army parachutes wyspers, very strong but light weight
[22:58] <NoirRose> Sort of like a heavier-duty nylon cord shoelace. At least, that's what it looks like
[22:59] <wyspers> oooh... think I've seen a flogger made out of that...
[22:59] <_mizu_> need 40 to 50 strand's to make a good heavy flogger
[22:59] <_mizu_> 30 makes a nice soft one
[23:00] <NoirRose> How hard are they to make, without having them fall apart on the third use? <grins>
[23:00] <^Coyote^^> I think they are very easy to make ... I make them myself too
[23:01] * NoirRose would have to play with the cord for a while before making a really good one.
[23:01] <_mizu_> pretty easy if you glue them, then make one wrap around with a single cord to form the handle
[23:01] <NoirRose> Ahhh.
[23:02] <^Coyote^^> I cut the cords and thread them through a piece of 1/2 inch pvc pipe .. glue them in and then wrap the pvc with leather
[23:02] <NoirRose> How about restraints? I don't think para cord would work overly well...too thin?
[23:02] <^Coyote^^> too thin
[23:02] <_mizu_> and if you realy want to be nasty about it, melt the strand end's to form little hard plastic tip's
[23:03] <NoirRose> Just make sure you don't drip the melted nylon on you!
[23:03] <NoirRose> *nasty* burns if you do.
[23:03] <^Coyote^^> yep
[23:03] <_mizu_> way to thin, unless you use it in a spider web, that takes two full roll's (giggle)
[23:03] * NoirRose grins
[23:03] <ntalia> Master used to make floggers from thick burgundy velvet. he would cut down the width of the material so that strips were about 1/2 an inch thick.
[23:04] <NoirRose> Hmmm...How about hemming the velvet? Is that something that you'd have to worry about fraying?
[23:04] <ntalia> he would leave about a foot not cut and then would roll it up tight and tie the handle with silk cord.
[23:05] <ntalia> yes, it did fray but he replaced it every so often and it didn't cost much.
[23:05] <ntalia> he'd buy a couple of yards at a time, unless he found it on sale.
[23:06] <ntalia> it was a lovely feeling. it was heavy and was somewhere between a caress and a smack....
[23:06] <_mizu_> that would work
[23:07] <NoirRose> I wonder what a satin flogger would be like.
[23:08] <wyspers> hmmm... quite sensuous I would imagine!
[23:08] <_mizu_> humm, never played with one, but the ones made from iner tubes are great fun!
[23:08] <NoirRose> Mmmm. It'd fray something fierce, though.
[23:08] <wyspers> nod nod
[23:08] <^Coyote^^> mizu .. how do you hold the inner tube together?
[23:09] <_mizu_> rubber cement then draw it thru the PVC pipe Sir
[23:10] <_mizu_> and tool dip the entire handle
[23:10] <^Coyote^^> ok .. thanks .. I'll give that a try too
[23:10] <NoirRose> While we're on the subject of PVC...How about PVC frames for tying subs to?
[23:10] <_mizu_> i break them to easy
[23:11] * ntalia notes that she and her Master spent much time at fabric and craft stores and sometimes got some very funny looks as he tried tying different widths and types of cords around her wrists.
[23:11] * NoirRose grins
[23:11] * wyspers laughs... like measuring chain around your neck at home depot...
[23:11] <^Coyote^^> as long as you use 2 inch or bigger NoirRose .. with a lot of cross bracing it would work
[23:11] <NoirRose> I've never done that.
[23:11] <ntalia> yes, something like that.
[23:11] <NoirRose> Yeah, you'd have to have a lot of cross bracing. At least when making swords, PVC will break under heavy blows
[23:13] <NoirRose> Hmmm...
[23:13] <NoirRose> How about materials used in restraints?
[23:13] <_mizu_> almost any large diameter rope works well
[23:14] <^Coyote^^> leather from Tandy is the best ... and you can get up to 2 inch belt blanks for under $10
[23:14] <NoirRose> Didn't the TAndy stores close down?
[23:14] <^Coyote^^> and from a 72 inch belt blank .. you can get several wrist and ankle restraints
[23:14] <wyspers> I have a few friends that make restraints from nylon webbing... I don't know how inexpensive it is
[23:14] <_mizu_> yeap, all mail order now Lady NoirRose
[23:15] <NoirRose> wyspers: It's not the cheapest thing
[23:15] <^Coyote^^> I got to our local one when they were closing down .. and bought out most of the belt blanks and several sides of leather for under $100
[23:15] <NoirRose> I just don't like getting leather I've never touched.
[23:15] * NoirRose is jealous, Coyote!
[23:15] <wyspers> thanks NoirRose :)
[23:15] <^Coyote^^> nylon webbing is cheap ... get it in the auto parts section of Kmart :))
[23:15] <NoirRose> It is good sturdy stuff, though.
[23:16] <NoirRose> Mmm, yeah, it does depend on what kind of webbing you get. I prefer the softer stuff, which is a bit priceier
[23:16] <NoirRose> The rougher stuff isn't so good for long-term bondage.
[23:16] <NoirRose> Though on the whole, I really prefer leather.
[23:17] <NoirRose> Do people have a favorite material for restraints?
[23:17] <wyspers> mine has to be leather...
[23:17] <^Coyote^^> so do I .. but the webbing used for tow straps is nice and soft
[23:17] <_mizu_> chainmail (giggle)
[23:18] <NoirRose> Leather is very nice...Though fae has this terrible tendency to break it.
[23:18] * NoirRose grins at mizu
[23:20] <NoirRose> Mmm...let's see...
[23:20] <NoirRose> Cheap and amusing ways to tie someone to the bed.
[23:21] <_mizu_> nylon stocking from the dollar store
[23:21] <NoirRose> I've found that it stretches too much
[23:22] <_mizu_> hummm
[23:23] <NoirRose> I've nailed chains to the bed frame, and lock the restraints to the chains
[23:24] <_mizu_> ohh the cheep nylon hammock's, lace a person into one of them and hang it
[23:25] * NoirRose never tried that!
[23:26] <NoirRose> What do other people use?
[23:26] <_mizu_> have seen full nylon body bag type items
[23:27] * NoirRose gets the impression that this discussion consists of her and mizu.
[23:27] * _mizu_ giggles
[23:27] <ntalia> Master used silk cording from the fabric store, about the width of one of my pinkies. he would take me there and find a color that matched what i was wearing that day.:)
[23:27] * NoirRose grins. Very artistic.
[23:27] <ntalia> i'm trying my best ma'am, but i generally didn't do the making.
[23:28] <ntalia> yes, he was.
[23:28] * NoirRose smiles wanly.
[23:28] <wyspers> I don't have any toys, myself...
[23:30] <ntalia> well, has anyone made there own bed?
[23:31] <NoirRose> No, fae makes the bed
[23:31] * NoirRose grins.
[23:31] <NoirRose> Though we're tossing the idea of making one around.
[23:31] <NoirRose> What would you put on a bed specially made for play?
[23:31] <ntalia> i know that Master had wanted to at some point, but never did...though he had plans for one with large posts in each corner and a canopy that would cover racks and pulleys and such.
[23:31] <NoirRose> (That you want to be able to sleep on too.)
[23:32] <ntalia> yes, that was the plan.
[23:32] * NoirRose grins.
[23:32] <ntalia> the canopy was to be just for covering things so that it wouldn't be obvious all that was beneath.
[23:33] <NoirRose> Other than a canopy, how would you hide things on the bed for visiting family?
[23:33] <ntalia> the plan was a captain's bed with storage beneath.
[23:33] <NoirRose> Ahhh...
[23:33] <ntalia> i don't know what other plans there were.
[23:34] <ntalia> i know he was going to have tieback curtains at the posts and the ties would be useful for other things.
[23:34] <NoirRose> All we've got right now are some leather cuffs and a few chains.
[23:35] <ntalia> well, a captain's bed would be good for other storage besides toys. i always needed more space for things.
[23:35] <NoirRose> Closet space is hard to come by
<fae{NR}> the rules of the discussion are as follows...
<fae{NR}> You must be t least 18 years of age to attend...if you are not at lesat 18 you will be kicked and banned...
<fae{NR}> be polite when speaking... no flaming (which means insults) if you flame you will be kicked and possible banned...
<fae{NR}> The log will be posted in it's entirety to the leather and roses web site..nicknames will not be changed unless I recieve an email requesting such....mail to webmaster@leathernroses.com
<fae{NR}> (unless raven receives an e-mail that is)
<fae{NR}> If I recieve no email requseting that your nick not be used, this will be taken as consent to use your nickname as it appears in the logs., on the web site
<fae{NR}> (again raven, not i)
<fae{NR}> No trolling will be tolerated..trolling is the advertising of yourself, wants needs. asking for cyber sex etc. If you troll you will be kicked...this is a discussion night not a singles night
<fae{NR}> Tonight's topic is BDSM on a Shoestring Budget
<fae{NR}> NoirRose is mostly going to be running the show tonight, AlstrBlack was supposed to but he seems to be having connection difficulties
[22:50] * NoirRose is going to try, at least.
<fae{NR}> okay, this is going to differ somewhat from usual discussion nights as this is a different topic than usual
[22:52] <ntalia> is it going to be show and tell?
<fae{NR}> a lot of things will be sharing ideas of various toys that would cost lotsa $$$ in the stores made with household or craft type stuff
[22:52] <NoirRose> Not this time around
[22:52] * NoirRose grins
<fae{NR}> more a describe and tell maybe?
[22:52] <NoirRose> Describe and tell, maybe?
[22:52] * wyspers laughs...
[22:53] * _mizu_ giggles
[22:53] <NoirRose> fae, out of my head!
<fae{NR}> so, anyone want to start with a favorite toy of theirs, or ask advice on how to make something or other (and questions will be discussed as they come up...probably regarding safety type stuff)
[22:53] <^Ming> a plastic cigar tube... fill it with water... frezze it... and use it to play with your submissive
[22:54] <NoirRose> Who here makes their own toys for the most part?
[22:54] <_mizu_> well the best thing if you have a army surpluse store near by it to get a spoool of para cord
[22:54] <wyspers> brrr
[22:54] <_mizu_> with it you can make ton's of item's (giggle)
[22:54] <NoirRose> Tack shops.
[22:56] <NoirRose> mizu, what sorts of items have you made with para cord?
[22:57] <_mizu_> humm, out of one roll got 5 floggers of various leangth's and a nice single tail
[22:57] <wyspers> how are the floggers? I don't know what para cord is like exactly...
[22:58] <_mizu_> it's a green nylon cord use in army parachutes wyspers, very strong but light weight
[22:58] <NoirRose> Sort of like a heavier-duty nylon cord shoelace. At least, that's what it looks like
[22:59] <wyspers> oooh... think I've seen a flogger made out of that...
[22:59] <_mizu_> need 40 to 50 strand's to make a good heavy flogger
[22:59] <_mizu_> 30 makes a nice soft one
[23:00] <NoirRose> How hard are they to make, without having them fall apart on the third use? <grins>
[23:00] <^Coyote^^> I think they are very easy to make ... I make them myself too
[23:01] * NoirRose would have to play with the cord for a while before making a really good one.
[23:01] <_mizu_> pretty easy if you glue them, then make one wrap around with a single cord to form the handle
[23:01] <NoirRose> Ahhh.
[23:02] <^Coyote^^> I cut the cords and thread them through a piece of 1/2 inch pvc pipe .. glue them in and then wrap the pvc with leather
[23:02] <NoirRose> How about restraints? I don't think para cord would work overly well...too thin?
[23:02] <^Coyote^^> too thin
[23:02] <_mizu_> and if you realy want to be nasty about it, melt the strand end's to form little hard plastic tip's
[23:03] <NoirRose> Just make sure you don't drip the melted nylon on you!
[23:03] <NoirRose> *nasty* burns if you do.
[23:03] <^Coyote^^> yep
[23:03] <_mizu_> way to thin, unless you use it in a spider web, that takes two full roll's (giggle)
[23:03] * NoirRose grins
[23:03] <ntalia> Master used to make floggers from thick burgundy velvet. he would cut down the width of the material so that strips were about 1/2 an inch thick.
[23:04] <NoirRose> Hmmm...How about hemming the velvet? Is that something that you'd have to worry about fraying?
[23:04] <ntalia> he would leave about a foot not cut and then would roll it up tight and tie the handle with silk cord.
[23:05] <ntalia> yes, it did fray but he replaced it every so often and it didn't cost much.
[23:05] <ntalia> he'd buy a couple of yards at a time, unless he found it on sale.
[23:06] <ntalia> it was a lovely feeling. it was heavy and was somewhere between a caress and a smack....
[23:06] <_mizu_> that would work
[23:07] <NoirRose> I wonder what a satin flogger would be like.
[23:08] <wyspers> hmmm... quite sensuous I would imagine!
[23:08] <_mizu_> humm, never played with one, but the ones made from iner tubes are great fun!
[23:08] <NoirRose> Mmmm. It'd fray something fierce, though.
[23:08] <wyspers> nod nod
[23:08] <^Coyote^^> mizu .. how do you hold the inner tube together?
[23:09] <_mizu_> rubber cement then draw it thru the PVC pipe Sir
[23:10] <_mizu_> and tool dip the entire handle
[23:10] <^Coyote^^> ok .. thanks .. I'll give that a try too
[23:10] <NoirRose> While we're on the subject of PVC...How about PVC frames for tying subs to?
[23:10] <_mizu_> i break them to easy
[23:11] * ntalia notes that she and her Master spent much time at fabric and craft stores and sometimes got some very funny looks as he tried tying different widths and types of cords around her wrists.
[23:11] * NoirRose grins
[23:11] * wyspers laughs... like measuring chain around your neck at home depot...
[23:11] <^Coyote^^> as long as you use 2 inch or bigger NoirRose .. with a lot of cross bracing it would work
[23:11] <NoirRose> I've never done that.
[23:11] <ntalia> yes, something like that.
[23:11] <NoirRose> Yeah, you'd have to have a lot of cross bracing. At least when making swords, PVC will break under heavy blows
[23:13] <NoirRose> Hmmm...
[23:13] <NoirRose> How about materials used in restraints?
[23:13] <_mizu_> almost any large diameter rope works well
[23:14] <^Coyote^^> leather from Tandy is the best ... and you can get up to 2 inch belt blanks for under $10
[23:14] <NoirRose> Didn't the TAndy stores close down?
[23:14] <^Coyote^^> and from a 72 inch belt blank .. you can get several wrist and ankle restraints
[23:14] <wyspers> I have a few friends that make restraints from nylon webbing... I don't know how inexpensive it is
[23:14] <_mizu_> yeap, all mail order now Lady NoirRose
[23:15] <NoirRose> wyspers: It's not the cheapest thing
[23:15] <^Coyote^^> I got to our local one when they were closing down .. and bought out most of the belt blanks and several sides of leather for under $100
[23:15] <NoirRose> I just don't like getting leather I've never touched.
[23:15] * NoirRose is jealous, Coyote!
[23:15] <wyspers> thanks NoirRose :)
[23:15] <^Coyote^^> nylon webbing is cheap ... get it in the auto parts section of Kmart :))
[23:15] <NoirRose> It is good sturdy stuff, though.
[23:16] <NoirRose> Mmm, yeah, it does depend on what kind of webbing you get. I prefer the softer stuff, which is a bit priceier
[23:16] <NoirRose> The rougher stuff isn't so good for long-term bondage.
[23:16] <NoirRose> Though on the whole, I really prefer leather.
[23:17] <NoirRose> Do people have a favorite material for restraints?
[23:17] <wyspers> mine has to be leather...
[23:17] <^Coyote^^> so do I .. but the webbing used for tow straps is nice and soft
[23:17] <_mizu_> chainmail (giggle)
[23:18] <NoirRose> Leather is very nice...Though fae has this terrible tendency to break it.
[23:18] * NoirRose grins at mizu
[23:20] <NoirRose> Mmm...let's see...
[23:20] <NoirRose> Cheap and amusing ways to tie someone to the bed.
[23:21] <_mizu_> nylon stocking from the dollar store
[23:21] <NoirRose> I've found that it stretches too much
[23:22] <_mizu_> hummm
[23:23] <NoirRose> I've nailed chains to the bed frame, and lock the restraints to the chains
[23:24] <_mizu_> ohh the cheep nylon hammock's, lace a person into one of them and hang it
[23:25] * NoirRose never tried that!
[23:26] <NoirRose> What do other people use?
[23:26] <_mizu_> have seen full nylon body bag type items
[23:27] * NoirRose gets the impression that this discussion consists of her and mizu.
[23:27] * _mizu_ giggles
[23:27] <ntalia> Master used silk cording from the fabric store, about the width of one of my pinkies. he would take me there and find a color that matched what i was wearing that day.:)
[23:27] * NoirRose grins. Very artistic.
[23:27] <ntalia> i'm trying my best ma'am, but i generally didn't do the making.
[23:28] <ntalia> yes, he was.
[23:28] * NoirRose smiles wanly.
[23:28] <wyspers> I don't have any toys, myself...
[23:30] <ntalia> well, has anyone made there own bed?
[23:31] <NoirRose> No, fae makes the bed
[23:31] * NoirRose grins.
[23:31] <NoirRose> Though we're tossing the idea of making one around.
[23:31] <NoirRose> What would you put on a bed specially made for play?
[23:31] <ntalia> i know that Master had wanted to at some point, but never did...though he had plans for one with large posts in each corner and a canopy that would cover racks and pulleys and such.
[23:31] <NoirRose> (That you want to be able to sleep on too.)
[23:32] <ntalia> yes, that was the plan.
[23:32] * NoirRose grins.
[23:32] <ntalia> the canopy was to be just for covering things so that it wouldn't be obvious all that was beneath.
[23:33] <NoirRose> Other than a canopy, how would you hide things on the bed for visiting family?
[23:33] <ntalia> the plan was a captain's bed with storage beneath.
[23:33] <NoirRose> Ahhh...
[23:33] <ntalia> i don't know what other plans there were.
[23:34] <ntalia> i know he was going to have tieback curtains at the posts and the ties would be useful for other things.
[23:34] <NoirRose> All we've got right now are some leather cuffs and a few chains.
[23:35] <ntalia> well, a captain's bed would be good for other storage besides toys. i always needed more space for things.
[23:35] <NoirRose> Closet space is hard to come by
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