Presents:
BDSM Discussion 12
Edge Play
All Comments Posted Here With Permission Of The Participants
[21:28]
<Jackal{s}> discribe edge play please?
[21:29] <ravenshad> OK..we will start the discussion then with that question Jackal..please wait one moment while I toss the rules up.. :)
[21:29] * ravenshad says Hello and welcome to leather and roses' weekly discussions on BDSM the following rules apply..
[21:29] <Tatsumi> egde play is anything the pushes a limit, fear or egde in your life/relationship
[21:29] <Jackal{s}> that you allow....or do not allow?
[21:30] <ravenshad> you must be of legal age to participate, if you are not, please leave. Legal age being 18 or 21 depending on your location
[21:30] <ravenshad> no trolling will be tolerated, this is not a singles night, it is a discussion night
[21:30] <ravenshad> be polite when speaking and do not flame anyone. You can disagree with an idea, but do not attack the person making the idea. Flamers, will be kicked
[21:30] <ravenshad> all statements are publishable on the web site, with nicks changed (at your request, email webmaster@leathernroses.com if you don't want your nick used.) If an email request is not recieved, that will be taken as consent to post the log in it's entirety using the nicknames.
[21:30] <ravenshad> To me..Edge play is any play that seriously flirts with death and/or severe injury...
[21:30] <wyspers^> that's been my understanding of it as well, raven..
[21:31] <Tatsumi> it can include <but doesn't have to> such things as water sports, blood play, death play, extreme bondage, etc...
[21:31] <ravenshad> Edge play may or may not be allowed in the relationship Jackal..it's a personal preference thing..
[21:31] <Jackal{s}> sounds very risky
[21:31] <Tatsumi> it can be Jackal
[21:32] <Tatsumi> that's why some people enjoy it
[21:32] <_mizu_> not if done right Sir, but it dose take trust
[21:32] <LadyMist{> I think that is what edge play is by definition...
[21:32] <LadyMist{> things that ARE risky...
[21:33] <ravenshad> edge play can include psychological edges as well..
[21:34] <LadyMist{> ahhhhh like severe humiliation?
[21:34] <ravenshad> edge play is risky..so why do some do it?
[21:34] <ravenshad> yes..severe humiliation can be very risky..specially for someone who has had emotional problems in the past..or possible past abuse
[21:34] <_mizu_> the thrill raven, get's the adriniln flowing
[21:35] <wyspers^> the greater the risk, the higher the adreneline rush, for one thing...
[21:35] <Jackal{s}> i have seen and heard of people who like to be choked while having intercourse but to me that to danger's
[21:35] <LadyMist{> ahhhh...now I can't get the rush unless I am comfortable...
[21:36] <LadyMist{> I had trouble with Milord wanting to place his hands on my neck....now am ok
[21:36] <Tatsumi> it is Jackal, but fun:)
[21:37] <ravenshad> That's breath control play Jackal..and I do enjoy it.. :)
[21:37] <AlstrBlck> I have played with electricity and one friend....
[21:37] <LadyMist{> it triggered bad emotions at first....before there was complete trust...
[21:38] <AlstrBlck> rather interesting, actually, trying to peel her off the ceiling, but also a tad dangerous.
[21:38] <LadyMist{> but I think edge play needs to be paired with complete trust...
[21:38] <Jackal{s}> why put oneself or any one in danger?
[21:38] <ravenshad> yes..I've had that happen...been chocked to unconsciousness when I was younger..so breath control was a big thing for me..
[21:38] <ravenshad> well Jackal, for me it is the fear (as a turn on) the ability to trust someone with my life..and my body likes it.. :)
[21:38] <LadyMist{> but Jackal anything and everything we do is dangerous...
[21:39] <Jackal{s}> this is true LadyMist
[21:39] <LadyMist{> my body likes being hurt....'smiling at raven'
[21:39] <ravenshad> yeah..seems mine does too.. :)
[21:40] <Jackal{s}> My partner enjoys biting on the neck and adams apple, but I must admit it scares me
[21:40] <LadyMist{> and that isnot completely safe either....but that is another conversation...
[21:40] <ravenshad> Why is edge play considered a part of BDSM that many do not like to talk about?
[21:40] <Tatsumi> Jackal, sometimes danger is an imprtant motivator or a way to get adreniline going
[21:40] <LadyMist{> Jackal there are many into biting....even blood play....that live....and get stimulated by it...
[21:41] <LadyMist{> I think that many do not like to talk about it....because so amny are not accpeting...
[21:41] <Jackal{s}> I had many adreniline rush in the military, but the one in the bedroom are much better and safer
[21:42] <AlstrBlck> for some, it's an adrenaline rush, pushing one's body to the limit and beyond. We're no different than the sky diver who waits to the absolute last second, and then waits one more, before pulling the cord.
[21:42] <ravenshad> Edge play isn't for everyone Jackal.. :) but to many, even a light flogging is edge play...
[21:42] <ravenshad> True LM..
[21:43] <LadyMist{> I think I am....
[21:43] <Jackal{s}> AlstrBlck I understand that but if you pull the cord to late who fault is it yours,
[21:43] * chens{LM} covers her nose again
[21:43] <ravenshad> How does one learn about edge play?
[21:44] <Soulhuntr> Just try it :)
[21:44] <Tatsumi> but be careful:)
[21:44] <AlstrBlck> Exactly, Jackal. And if you go to the edge with someone you don't have trust in, or who has inadequite abilities, the same thing happens.
[21:44] <LadyMist{> I think for most it is either a desire or a worked into situaiton...
[21:44] <Soulhuntr> Its true.... you have to think it out VERY carefully.
[21:44] <Soulhuntr> Learn all you can about what your doing.
[21:44] <Soulhuntr> Stay VERY alert.
[21:44] <Jackal{s}> I understand that it is something you and your partner must agree totally on
[21:44] <wyspers^> personally, I think edge play shouldn't just be tried without some research, thinking, and talking to those that have done it...
[21:45] <AlstrBlck> My friend and I were both very lucky when I played with electricity with her the first time.
[21:45] <ravenshad> In my experience, which is far from all knowing btw, it seems to me that people do indeed just try it...but shoudl the indeed research what it is they are about to do..so they can do it as safely as they possibly can?
[21:45] <ravenshad> well said Soul.. :)
[21:45] <ravenshad> AB, did you research electrical play at all? or was it just something you decided to pick up and go with. ??
[21:46] <Tatsumi> Daddy has a Cattle Prod that we just got and tried
[21:46] <Tatsumi> we just about hit the ceiling!
[21:46] <Tatsumi> lol
[21:46] <AlstrBlck> raven, you may have seen the few docs I have. One of those covered Electrical play, so I can say I have read something, but I will admit, I was very green for electrical play.
[21:46] <Soulhuntr> Well.. soemtimes you need to worry... sometimes not.
[21:47] <ravenshad> Ahhh..but Soul knows some info about that kind of play doesn't he?
[21:47] * ravenshad giggles and pictures herself hanging from the cieling by her fingernails...cattle prod?
[21:47] <Soulhuntr> That cattle prod for example.. it wasnt going to hurt us... so just trying it was fine.
[21:47] <KimiD> <-not fond of the cattle prod :)
[21:47] <Tatsumi> about cattle prods? what's there to know? you hit the button and zap someone:) hehehehe
[21:47] <Tatsumi> me either!!
[21:47] <Soulhuntr> <- is REALLY fond of it.
[21:47] <AlstrBlck> I seem to recall touching her clitoris with bare wires, and the next second, needing a spatula to scrape her off the ceiling... <EG>
[21:47] <Tatsumi> it wasn't going to HARM us. it hurt like HELL!
[21:47] <Tatsumi> lol
[21:48] <wyspers^> ouchie...
[21:48] <Tatsumi> Soul, don't fib. you hated it too
[21:48] <Tatsumi> lol AB
[21:48] <Soulhuntr> I didnt liek the feeling ;)
[21:48] * LadyMist{ think ouch...and that I am a baby about electrical play...
[21:48] <Soulhuntr> But then, I am gonna be on the handle side :) So I like it jsut fine.
[21:48] <Tatsumi> uh huh:)
[21:48] <KimiD> :smirk:
[21:48] * chens{LM} thinks ouch too
[21:48] * AlstrBlck considers turning on kimi's cam web page, to see her get zapped... <G>
[21:49] <Soulhuntr> It was better than that damn roller coaster. THAT was edge play. And non consensual at that.
[21:49] * ravnshad returns..darn ISP dumped me..
[21:49] <Jackal{s}> Hey I am a baby to it to I wouldn't it
[21:49] <KimiD> so what did i do to you Alstr?
[21:49] <Tatsumi> heheheh Daddy
[21:49] <Soulhuntr> <- damn near soiled hisself.
[21:50] <AlstrBlck> nothing, Kimi... But don't have Tat's web page memorized. <G>
[21:50] <Soulhuntr> <- screamed, clutched flagg and cried.
[21:50] <KimiD> it's the same cam :)
[21:51] <ravnshad> I do think, that often, people do just try things.
[21:52] <LadyMist{> coolness.
[21:52] <Jackal{s}> confussed
[21:52] <ravenshad> Do you think that edge play gives BDSM a bad name?
[21:52] <LadyMist{> I do 'cause very few understand....
[21:53] <KimiD> no i think people who aren't willing to let others feel comfortable with what they enjoy give BDSM a bad name
[21:53] <LadyMist{> that egde play is just a more intense form of stimulation..
[21:53] <Kristy> we have not tried electrical play yet...so i have no idea...Eric'll probably like it tho
[21:53] <Jackal{s}> I need to learn more on the subject
[21:53] <ncetnguy> I agree with KimiD
[21:53] * Kristy loves roller coasters :)
[21:53] * LadyMist{ hates them...LOL
[21:53] <Tatsumi> i agree Kimi
[21:54] * LadyMist{ agress with kimi too..
[21:54] <Jackal{s}> explain roller coaster
[21:54] <Tatsumi> <-- doesn't like electricty
[21:54] <Tatsumi> rollar coatser, a big ride at an amusement park
[21:54] <LadyMist{> is breath and blood and electricity the only edges though...?
[21:55] <Tatsumi> usually has high speed and makes your stomach get butterflies
[21:55] <Tatsumi> anything that pushes a limit fear, or edge is edge-play
[21:55] <LadyMist{> Jackal I think everyone is talking about the fear involved with rollar coaster vs. edge play...the same...
[21:55] <KimiD> guns,knives,hanging
[21:55] <KimiD> drowning
[21:55] <Jackal{s}> got you Tatsumi
[21:55] <LrdBlkfel> hmm
[21:55] <KimiD> needles
[21:56] <LadyMist{> YIkes,....needles.....I can handle the rest...
[21:56] * LadyMist{ jumps a foot...
[21:56] <Tatsumi> for instance, if you have a fear of heights, having sex on an airl=plane or a Ferris Wheel could be edge play
[21:56] <Jackal{s}> stay away from me with needles!!!!!!!
[21:56] <Tatsumi> :)
[21:56] <LrdBlkfel> ahh
[21:57] * wyspers^ has a strange image of herself handcuffed to a Ferris Wheel and forced to ride...
[21:57] <Jackal{s}> I understand better Tatsumi
[21:57] <wild{V_P}> lol wyspers... with your Master keeping you excited at the same time
[21:57] <Tatsumi> :) cool
[21:57] <KimiD> <--terrified of the FreeFall ride
[21:57] <Tatsumi> me too Kimi
[21:57] * wyspers^ grins at wild... oh yes...
[21:58] * chens{LM} loves all scary amusement park rides... *delighted grin*
[21:58] * wild{V_P} loves them too...
[21:58] <LadyMist{> OK so how does the mindfuck fall into edge play? is or not?
[21:58] <Kristy> :)
[21:58] <Jackal{s}> I could see make love on a greating 400 feet up in the air having to look down
[21:58] <wyspers^> the ferris wheel is scary...
[21:58] <Kristy> lol
[21:58] <wild{V_P}> we all have fears in the mind... just as fears of things
[21:59] <wyspers^> I don't think it is... unless it's so severe as to possibly cause psychological harm...
[21:59] <Kristy> absolutely love roller coasters....
[21:59] <Kristy> but not free fall rides
[21:59] <Kristy> those terrify me
[21:59] <Tatsumi> mindufcks are about tricking someone into thinking something is happening when it's not <to me>
[22:00] <LadyMist{> that is a mind fuck to me too...
[22:00] <LadyMist{> so what if a sub is ready for something and a Dom is not...
[22:00] <Tatsumi> so, if a sub is sensory deprived and feels a 'needle' when it's a toothpick, that's a mindfuck <to me>
[22:00] <LadyMist{> is the mindfuck as good?
[22:00] <Tatsumi> you wait lady
[22:01] <Tatsumi> or discuss getting a Mentor to help
[22:01] <Jackal{s}> why not just do vertual reality then to have them mind games where it still safe and messing with you rmind
[22:01] <LadyMist{> ??
[22:01] <Tatsumi> as good? it depends on your goals Lady
[22:01] <Kristy> :) Kimi
[22:01] <Tatsumi> if you're interesting in the fear behind the act and the acceptance and the f'flying' then the actual needle is not neccesasry
[22:01] <Kristy> screamed so loud my throat hurt all day the last time i went on one
[22:01] <LadyMist{> as a Dom if I don't feel confortable branding someone...who really wants it....
[22:02] <ravenshad> Jackal are you asking why not use virtual reality to get the mental thrill from edge play?
[22:02] <LrdBlkfel> has anyone branded or been branded?
[22:02] <Jackal{s}> yes raven
[22:02] <Tatsumi> Lady, i have a GREAT mind fuck for branding if you want i can email it to you:)
[22:02] <LadyMist{> but virtual reality is not the same..
[22:02] <ravenshad> Sorry AB...she didn't say anything that I saw ...
[22:02] <ravenshad> well because virtual reality..one: not everyone can afford it..
[22:03] <ravenshad> and two: is not the same as the physical thrill one gets from real human contact..
[22:03] <LadyMist{> I have thrown meat ont he barbie and used ice....for the mindfuck...
[22:03] <Soulhuntr> 2) Is hasnt been invented yet :)
[22:03] <ravenshad> lesat..that would be my thoughts..
[22:03] <ravenshad> that too Soul :)
[22:03] <Tatsumi> besides, the sdub doesn't know it's fake
[22:03] <LadyMist{> 2???
[22:03] <LadyMist{> what was one please?
[22:03] <Tatsumi> they actually think they are being peirced, or branded, or cut, or burned, whatever
[22:03] <Soulhuntr> 1) price
[22:03] <Jackal{s}> ok I agree there maybe I should just think more on this subject
[22:03] <LadyMist{> ahhhhhh....
[22:03] <LadyMist{> got it....(I hope)
[22:04] <Soulhuntr> At what point does a mind fuck start causing trust issues? if you are repeatedly 'tricked', then when do you stop believing?
[22:04] <LadyMist{> Like the scene where the sub thought she was being cut and there was warm water running dowm her body...
[22:04] <Tatsumi> a mindfuck is about trust and acceptance and fear without the physical consequence later
[22:05] <Tatsumi> Soul, if a sub has said no blood play, and the dom doesn the needle trick on her it may backfire
[22:05] <LadyMist{> I think the mind thing can only work once.....SHOULD only work once....should never be tried more than one...
[22:05] <Tatsumi> like anything / everything else, the dom is at riosk
[22:05] <Tatsumi> risk even
[22:06] <Tatsumi> Lady, it really depends on the person being tricked
[22:06] <ravenshad> A mind fuck if repeated, can erode trust....I think anyway....
[22:06] <LadyMist{> OK....I can understand that..
[22:06] <Tatsumi> not neccessarily
[22:07] * ravenshad thinks for a moment..(sorry all, with the time change, my kids are still up and I am having a hard time concentrating with a two year old hopping on my lap)
[22:07] <LadyMist{> but if I am not being trusted (as a dominant) and I try to make a sub understand that through the fantasy...(and only once)
[22:07] <LadyMist{> why do it again?
[22:07] <Tatsumi> if a sub says no blood, and a dom does the needle thing, and she trusts him, she will know intellectually she isn't being violated, but her mind and emotions will think she is being cut. she gets the fear and excitement without breaking the limit
[22:08] <Tatsumi> but it requires aa LOT of trust
[22:08] <Tatsumi> and can backfire really easy
[22:08] <Tatsumi> and horriblely
[22:08] <LadyMist{> sometimes more than they have.,....knowing it took me 6 years to get there...
[22:08] <ravenshad> I don't know Tats..if one had said no blood..to be "fooled" into believing they are being cut..it could backfire so easily..the anger and misturst such a "belief" raises..is not easily erased just by realizing you weren't really cut..know what I mean?
[22:09] <ravenshad> true Tats.. :)
[22:09] * ravenshad needs to learn to type faster again..
[22:09] <Tatsumi> i do raven, but when it works, it's so incredible
[22:09] <Tatsumi> i think it's more dangerous than any edge-play though
[22:09] <Tatsumi> and wouldn't recommend it
[22:09] <Tatsumi> :) raven
[22:09] <ravenshad> I have to agree with that Tats.. :)
[22:10] <Tatsumi> :)
[22:10] <LadyMist{> so the mental is more dangerous than the physical? (playing devil's advocate)
[22:10] <ravenshad> Something like that could cause an overwhelming anger and erode trust..and even destroy the relationship causing teh sub to think the dom violated their limits..or would do so..
[22:10] <Tatsumi> i think so Lady
[22:10] <Soulhuntr> Your right Tat - it would really depend on the trust level :)
[22:10] <ravenshad> I think so LM..mental scars last longer, and are more difficult to get rid of than a physical one..
[22:10] <Tatsumi> a body heals a lot faster than trust
[22:10] <Tatsumi> and accidental pysical mess-ups are easier to forgive too
[22:10] <Soulhuntr> Its about the seperation of mental trust from gut reaction.
[22:11] <Tatsumi> yep Soul
[22:11] <Soulhuntr> Liek a roller coaster... the body reacts as if life was threatened, but intellectually you know your safe.
[22:11] <ravenshad> I agree Tats..it is easier to forgive a misplaced strike than an emotional/mental scar..
[22:11] <LadyMist{> 'S' I agree...although I think if one had physical problems....that a physical mess up....is not easily forgiven either...
[22:11] * ravenshad doesn't believe roller coasters are safe..hates them with a passion..will never get on one...<grin>
[22:11] <Tatsumi> yes Soul
[22:12] * LadyMist{ hates them too...
[22:12] <Tatsumi> you just have to trust the ride that you're going to live through it:)
[22:12] <ravenshad> I think it depends on the person LM and whether or not they are willing to accept the consequences of their participation in BDSM activities..(like me)
[22:12] <LadyMist{> I don't....not ever!!
[22:12] <ravenshad> yeah..and I don't trust the rides either!! LOLOLOL
[22:12] <Tatsumi> lol
[22:12] <LadyMist{> was speaking of coasters..
[22:12] * ravenshad giggles..
[22:12] <Tatsumi> hehehe
[22:12] <ravenshad> sorry..I was just told "wub ooouuu Mama!"..<grin>
[22:12] <Tatsumi> <-- coffee brb
[22:13] <LadyMist{> I can accept the risks but....when Milord accidently strikes my back and puts me flat our for a couple of days....I have emotions ramifications...BIG ones..
[22:13] <ravenshad> I do too..but they are usually against myself..not my master..
[22:14] <LadyMist{> I have them against him due to the fact that I know how easy it is to not do it....the "switch- thing" I guess
[22:14] <LadyMist{> 'sigh'
[22:14] <ravenshad> When Bugs and I first started, he marked my back with a magic marker..made a "no strike" zone on it..used it to help him learn where it was ok and where it wasn't ok to hit my back..
[22:14] * LadyMist{ sometimes hates being a switch....
[22:15] <ravenshad> Yes..I can see how being a switch would do it..
[22:15] <LadyMist{> and other times....'smiling at chens
[22:15] <ravenshad> With my former partner, I would get emotional ramifications against him if he struck my back..
[22:15] <ravenshad> because I figured after 3 years together..he should have known better..and I knew he could avoid it if he really wanted to..
[22:15] <LadyMist{> we have been together for 6 years raven....it hasnt' changed...
[22:15] <AlstrBlck> raven, answer me this. He marked the area. Did he come close to the boundry line, or did he stay a couple inches from it?
[22:16] <ravenshad> he came close..and on one occasion, I moved,,and he hit the scar directly..
[22:16] <Kristy> I agree with Tats
[22:16] <AlstrBlck> And, since that time, has the boundry moved any?
[22:16] <ravenshad> was an accident..
[22:16] <ravenshad> yes..it has been removed..he knows how to hit there if he chooses to..though he prefers to remain at least one inch around the scar at all times..least until they refuse the area..
[22:16] <ravenshad> I see LM..that makes it more difficult..
[22:16] <AlstrBlck> so the no strike zone had a x-inch grey-zone boundry about it, then.
[22:16] <ravenshad> yes it did AB..
[22:17] <AlstrBlck> so, for you, and your back, would you say that you've gone to the edge of what you could tolerate, and have gone past it then?
[22:18] <ravenshad> I have surpassed everything I thought I could tolerate AB in the past few months..
[22:18] <ravenshad> I no longer know where my limits (physical play wise) are...
[22:18] <Tats-brb> :) raven
[22:18] <AlstrBlck> so BDSM has been like physical therapy for you, with your back.
[22:19] <ravenshad> no it hasn't AB..the physical play puts me off my feet for anywhere from 1 to 3 days after every session..
[22:19] <ravenshad> it increase the pain in my back every time I play..and could cripple me if I'm hit just the right way..
[22:19] <LadyMist{> but it does help you mentally....
[22:19] * ravenshad plays anyway..
[22:19] <ravenshad> yes it helps me mentally...and the sub space..leaves me pain free until my body cools down..
[22:19] <AlstrBlck> sorry, said that wrong. Thanx, LM. That's what I meant.
[22:19] <ravenshad> I ..need that small amount of pain free time..yanno?
[22:20] <ravenshad> to me, it's worth the risk..
[22:20] * LadyMist{ understands....
[22:20] <ravenshad> to others, I'm nuts.. LOLOL
[22:20] <AlstrBlck> to others, raven, we're ALL nuts.
[22:20] <LadyMist{> I thought you were nuts....(kidding) I do understnad.,..
[22:20] * wyspers^ laughs
[22:20] <ravenshad> true AB.. :)
[22:20] <ravenshad> so is that what it is then ...edge play is something some need in some way?
[22:20] <Tatsumi> yup AB
[22:20] <ravenshad> I know you do LM :)
[22:21] <Tatsumi> yup raven
[22:21] <AlstrBlck> it's the adrenaline rush, raven. We all get it in different ways.
[22:21] * ravenshad smiles..
[22:21] <ravenshad> ahhh..gotta love adrenaline.. :)
[22:21] <ravenshad> Is edge play sane? (ohhh..hot question)
[22:22] <Tatsumi> for some its about deeper trust, more sensation, or adrenilin
[22:22] <ravenshad> or all three Tats.. :)
[22:22] <Tatsumi> i couldn't say what sane is
[22:22] <LadyMist{> does aderelin have to do with all edge play? or is it just an incintive?
[22:22] <Soulhuntr> From my POV... ti isnt about adrenaline... it is mostly power, trust and reaction.
[22:22] <Tatsumi> yup raven:)
[22:22] <ravenshad> I think it's an incentive for some of it, and the reason for some of it..depending on each person..and the types of play they enjoy...
[22:23] <ravenshad> I can agree with that Soul..would it then be for the "helplessness" on the sub's part??
[22:23] <Soulhuntr> :)
[22:23] <Soulhuntr> Umm... yes, I think....and I like giving extreme sensations. Fear/pleasure/pain... whatever
[22:24] <ravenshad> I have to agree with you Soul..I know that for me, part of the attraction of edge play is the intensity of the feeling of helplessness..though it isn't just a feeling, it is a reality in many cases..
[22:24] <Tatsumi> i dont like the feeling, but i like what being helpless allows me to feel
[22:24] <Kimiko> i like showing the trust that edgeplay allows me to do.
[22:24] <Tatsumi> does that make any sense?
[22:24] <ravenshad> yes it does Tats..
[22:24] <Tatsumi> thanks raven:)
[22:25] <ravenshad> when done with a trusted partner, helplessness takes on a different "feeling" than truly being completely helpless does..
[22:25] <Tatsumi> yeah raven
[22:25] <ravenshad> it's consensual..which seems to make the difference for many types of play between even a minimum of enjoyment..and outright abhorance/terror
[22:25] <Tatsumi> but even with total trust, the feeling of helplessness just sucks for me
[22:25] <ravenshad> I do too Kimi..it is hard to explain the trust part though..
[22:26] <Tatsumi> but i allow it <and like ti> because being helpless allows me to play on edges i wouldn't be able to do otherwise
[22:26] <ravenshad> I can understand that Tats..
[22:26] <Tatsumi> thanks raven:)
[22:26] <Kristy> thats interesting Tats about the helplessnes...for the most part i like that helpless feeling but everyonce in awhile it just really makes me upset
[22:26] <Tatsumi> i dont need anyone to agree, just undserstand the words:) lol
[22:27] <AlstrBlck> If someone were to break into your house, and tie you naked to the bed, gag you, and have their way with you, it's terror-filled. But, if the same is done (the tying naked to the bed, gagging, having their way) is done by someone you trust in the situation, the emotional ride is entirely different.
[22:27] <Tatsumi> i think that's baggage Kristy
[22:27] <Tatsumi> sometimes i just get hit with past baggage in the middle of a 'scene'
[22:27] <Tatsumi> it really sux
[22:27] <ravenshad> Does edge play increase the possibility of emotional damage for those who do have a history of abuse or something?
[22:27] * LadyMist{ couldn't evercome rape until someone I trusted re-enacted the ame sernio...'S"
[22:27] <ravenshad> Yes it does suck Tats..and I know that too well..
[22:27] <Kristy> :nods: exactly Tats
[22:27] <ravenshad> it's horrible to panic in a scene..
[22:28] <ravenshad> So LM would you say that some edge play can be used to help a person get over some passed emotional baggage?
[22:28] <ravenshad> past even..
[22:29] <Tatsumi> i think it depends on the person and the abuse
[22:29] * ravenshad nods..I can agree with that..
[22:29] <LadyMist{> Yes....and I think it is easier to get over something by saying that 'x;' happened bfore ....YUCKY...and now"x" os happening again...and I am OK....even stronger...
[22:29] <Tatsumi> but just about any good relationship can be used to help one become whole again after abuse
[22:29] <ravenshad> Would you say that edge play is something one should work their way up to?
[22:29] <ravenshad> true Tats.. :)
[22:30] <LadyMist{> Yes....I think so...
[22:30] <Kristy> i think so raven
[22:30] <Tatsumi> i think it depends on your needs
[22:30] <ravenshad> I know how that feels LM..it can work that way.. :)
[22:30] <Tatsumi> <doiesn't it all seem to depend ? lol>
[22:30] <LadyMist{> true too...if the desire is there...
[22:30] <Kristy> you need time for the trust to build..
[22:30] <ravenshad> ok..lets say you know you like/need/want knife play..but you have a new partner who isn't so sure of it..would you prefer to work up to it..or jump right in?
[22:30] <Tatsumi> some never need or want to play an edge
[22:30] <Tatsumi> that doesn't mean they're not kinky or into BDSM
[22:30] <ravenshad> I agree that trust must be built before edge play comes into the relationship...
[22:31] <Tatsumi> it just means thier needs are different:)
[22:31] <Tatsumi> if the patner isn't secure in an edge-play activity dont do it
[22:31] <LadyMist{> Now as a dom if I can't or don't feel comfortable...I would rather do the playact at knife play..
[22:31] <LadyMist{> than actually cut a person..
[22:32] * chens{LM} wouldnt like to be cut
[22:32] <Tatsumi> there is nothing wrong IMO to have a Mantor or close friedn preform the act of cutting/branding.peircing/etc..
[22:32] * ravenshad never thought she would like to be cut..but isn't sure of that anymore..
[22:32] <Tatsumi> i loove to be cut:)
[22:32] <Kristy> don't know if i'd like cutting...
[22:32] <LrdBlkfel> hmm
[22:32] <Tatsumi> it's a very unique and exicting feeling:)
[22:33] <Tatsumi> wow my typos are horrid! lol
[22:33] * ravenshad giggles..no worse than mine sometimes Tats.. :)
[22:33] <Kristy> seems like it Tats...i've read a few scene reports on it
[22:33] <Bugs42`> never thought much about cutting, what is it you find exciting
[22:33] <LrdBlkfel> Tasumi, have you said where you been cut already?
[22:33] <ravenshad> OK..so where does one learn how to do edge play activities?
[22:34] <AlstrBlck> movies, friends, word of mouth, magazines...
[22:34] <Kristy> lots of BDSM groups host seminars on them
[22:34] <Tatsumi> by practice, and watching, and being taught
[22:34] <LadyMist{> hopefully by those who have done it before...repeatedly...
[22:34] <Tatsumi> depends on the activbity
[22:34] <ravenshad> and if there are no local BDSM groups?
[22:34] <Tatsumi> LB, i have cut myslef on my arms, thighs, breats, and stomach
[22:34] * ravenshad thinks of the many who live in BFE...
[22:34] <Kristy> then by practice and watching as Tats said
[22:34] <LrdBlkfel> hmm
[22:35] <Tatsumi> Soul has cut my ass, thighs, breats, stomach and back
[22:35] <AlstrBlck> or worse, raven, one of the notches in the bible belt... :(
[22:35] <LrdBlkfel> kinda kinky in a way
[22:35] <Tatsumi> i have also cut Kimiko
[22:35] <Tatsumi> that was fun:)
[22:35] <ravenshad> What things should a person research before trying edge play?
[22:35] <LrdBlkfel> not sure if i could do that tho
[22:35] <AlstrBlck> the dangers and risks involved, raven.
[22:35] * ravenshad thinks there is one thing missing from "practice and watching"..
[22:35] * LadyMist{ lives int he bible belt and has been taught...<--- is very LUCKY
[22:35] <ravenshad> true AB..not what I was thinking of, but that's true
[22:35] <ravenshad> how about..basic anatomy?
[22:35] <LadyMist{> PRACTICE...LOl
[22:35] <Tatsumi> if you're going to cut someone, do it to yourself first
[22:35] <Kristy> :)
[22:35] <ravenshad> location of arteries, major nerves, and muscle groups??
[22:36] <AlstrBlck> Tat, I have.....
[22:36] <LadyMist{> atanomy...
[22:36] <Tatsumi> you have NO IDEA how much pressure to use unless you can feel it
[22:36] <Tatsumi> :)
[22:36] <LadyMist{> sran wrap over jellop
[22:36] <Soulhuntr> you dont really every go that deep raven.
[22:36] <LadyMist{> jello even
[22:36] <ravenshad> practice the use of knives/scalpals etc on things like peaches, plums etc..get a feel for how deep you can opr want to go..
[22:36] <Tatsumi> good plan ravn, but i dont ever plan to go that deep
[22:36] <ravenshad> true Soul..but the idea is to know where theese things are..one: in case of an accident and two..to prevent going too deep in that area..
[22:36] <Soulhuntr> Well.. nothing, NOTHING is like human skin that I know for practicing cutting.
[22:36] <Tatsumi> yes LM
[22:37] <Tatsumi> i agree Soul
[22:37] <ravenshad> true Soul..but one can get a better handle on using a knife and I'd rather slice a plum too deeply than my own thigh.. :)
[22:37] <Tatsumi> and practicing is essntail if you want a pretty design:)
[22:37] * LadyMist{ has taken basis atamony and dome a cadaver....nothing like the living though
[22:37] <Kimiko> <-waiting for her next cutting :)
[22:37] <ravenshad> there are more than just knives used in edge play..a basic idea of anatomy is a good thing to know for activities outside of edge play as well..
[22:37] <Tatsumi> lol - you have to use a LOT of pressure with a scalpel
[22:37] <Soulhuntr> All I can say is, I have cut lots of things, paper, vegetables, fruit, leather and so on... nothing is like skin.
[22:37] * LadyMist{ is typo queen yet again...LOL
[22:38] <Tatsumi> you wont be able to slice yourself opne that badly as long as your careful:)
[22:38] <Tatsumi> true raven:)
[22:38] <ravenshad> Does edgplay enhance the power exchange in the relationship in your opinion?
[22:39] <LadyMist{> ahhhhh...it does...if your other half would like the activities
[22:39] <ravenshad> Would you say that edge play hold a more mental/emotional appeal for you, or a more physical one?
[22:40] <LadyMist{> Depends on if you wnat me as a Dom or a sub...LOL
[22:41] <Kristy> I think it's both raven...we haven't done any real edge play yet..but some things I crave the physical sensation of and the rest is just the mental and emotional between Eric and I
[22:42] <ravenshad> I can understand that Kristy.. :)
[22:42] <Kristy> :)
[22:42] <ravenshad> I would have to say that for me it is both..though I have very little edge play experience
[22:43] <LadyMist{> but isn't everyone edges different? or are they the same?
[22:43] <KimiD> ;
[22:43] <Tatsumi> everyone has different edges
[22:43] <ravenshad> yes they are different LM..I think so anyway..
[22:43] <Kristy> i think so too
[22:44] <Tatsumi> becuse everyone has diff fears and limit
[22:44] <Tatsumi> s
[22:44] <Tatsumi> talking about a rape scene or death play wont get you kicked will it?
[22:44] <ravenshad> What are the hardest edges to "play" with? physical or mental/emotional oens?
[22:44] <ravenshad> no Tats..not at all..
[22:44] <Tatsumi> thanks:)
[22:45] <LadyMist{> rape was the hardest until I dealt with it...
[22:46] <ravenshad> I can udnerstand that LM..
[22:46] <Tatsumi> raven, i couldn't say which are harder, it depends on the personal limits/fears/edges
[22:46] <ravenshad> a rape fantasy is something I've thought about..but I am not sure if I could ever go through one without panicking..
[22:46] <LadyMist{> I had to get through one without panicking......
[22:46] <Kristy> and I think it would depend on the situation...some edge things would be more nerve wracking physically, but wouldn't bother me at all mental/emotion wise
[22:47] <ravenshad> I think it might be the emotional/psychological ones that are mor difficult..people tend to hold faster to those "limits" than they do the physical ones..
[22:47] <ravenshad> good point Kristy..
[22:47] <LadyMist{> I was raped twice,.,.,and it was affecting my ability to serve...
[22:47] <ravenshad> so..would edge play be something that requires a lot of discussion before it takes place?
[22:47] <LrdBlkfel> seems so
[22:47] <LadyMist{> depends on the trust level...
[22:48] <ravenshad> I am sorry to hear that you had to live through that twice LM..and I am glad to hear you have gotten past the baggage it leaves behind..
[22:48] <LadyMist{> Milord could do anything (literally) and I would be ok...
[22:48] * LadyMist{ smiles
[22:48] <ravenshad> yes..that is a major factor..
[22:48] <AlstrBlck> That is a DANGEROUS word, LadyMist....
[22:48] <LadyMist{> I am ok now,...
[22:48] <LadyMist{> why dangerous?
[22:49] <ravenshad> Do you think some people see edge play as something they have to do in order to be considered "real" bdsmers?
[22:49] <AlstrBlck> The word ANYTHING is a dangerous word. I know a Domme who will NEVER say that word around me again.
[22:49] <LadyMist{> I have said before (on the group) that I can and would fall into the great beyond in his arms and I would be ok..
[22:50] <LadyMist{> is there anything in the middle? 'curious'
[22:50] <LrdBlkfel> that is alot of trust Miss.. how long have you been..together
[22:50] <LadyMist{> I have been collared for 6 years now...
[22:50] <ravenshad> Cngrats LM.. :)
[22:50] <LadyMist{> thank you..'S"
[22:50] <ravenshad> you're welcome :)
[22:50] <LadyMist{> it hasn't been esy for either of us...LOL
[22:51] <ravenshad> I do have to agree with AB though..never use the word "anything" with someone you do not know well enough to know they wouldn't ask something of you that you definately could not give..
[22:51] <LadyMist{> oh...totally agreed...
[22:51] <LadyMist{> couldn't agree more...
[22:51] <ravenshad> goes back to negotiation and being sure your partner is someone who's needs/desires/fantasies match yours pretty darned well..
[22:51] <LrdBlkfel> Miss, hehe.. nothing seems to be easy in this lifetime.. but at least your still together.. I wish it is the same for me and my rose
[22:51] <Kristy> good point raven
[22:51] <LadyMist{> 'S"
[22:52] <AlstrBlck> Thanx, raven. As I've said, I know a Domme, into hardcore s&m, and she SHIVERS when anyone says that word, because she remembers me.. <VEG>
[22:52] <LadyMist{> we wouldn''t be anything but together....
[22:52] <ravenshad> LOL AB..leave it to you!! LOLOLOL
[22:52] * LadyMist{ wants to meet AB...(not a challenge....a Wish...a real one...)
[22:53] * LadyMist{ is loaned out frequently.....
[22:53] <ravenshad> Do you see edge play as a seperate part of BDSM? or just part of the whole...>
[22:53] <ravenshad> ?
[22:53] <Kristy> I think it's part of the whole, raven...
[22:53] <LrdBlkfel> loaned out
[22:53] <Bugs42`> I agree, part of the whole
[22:53] <Kristy> to be taken or left as each couple decides
[22:54] * ravenshad thinks the same..
[22:54] <LadyMist{> I wouldn't even say as a couple decides......as one decides and the other is comfortable with..
[22:55] <Kristy> that sounds better
[22:55] <LrdBlkfel> hmm
[22:55] <ravenshad> I think that on something like edge play, it should be a mutual decision...
[22:55] <ravenshad> simply because of the increased ability of permanent physical harm..
[22:55] <ravenshad> the one who could be hurt, should be
[22:55] <ravenshad> 1: agreeable to it
[22:55] <ravenshad> 2: willing to accept the increased chance of permanent injury..
[22:56] <Bugs42`> you think it should be discussed?
[22:56] <Tatsumi> what Bugs?
[22:57] <Bugs42`> raven said she thought edge play should be a mutual decision
[22:57] <Tatsumi> i agree
[22:57] <ravenshad> I think it should be ys..but, life doesn't always work that way...
[22:57] <ravenshad> yes even
[22:57] <ravenshad> edge play Tats..
[22:57] <ravenshad> someone said it should be as one decides and the other feels comfortable with..I said that I feel it should be mutual agreement to inlclude or exclude edge play from the relationship..
[22:57] <ravenshad> to put it in better words.. :)
[22:58] <Tatsumi> oh
[22:58] <Tatsumi> ok... i dont think you can decide that you will never do anything edgy
[22:58] <Tatsumi> b/c people change too much to say never'
[22:58] <ravenshad> I agree with that Tats..:)
[22:59] <ravenshad> I meant that it should be a mutual decision to include it (whatever particular type of play it might be)
[22:59] <Kristy> yes they do...a year ago Eric and i both had things we'd "never" do..that we are discussing doing not
[22:59] <Kristy> now that is
[22:59] <Tatsumi> but when you are doing something edgy, both people should know about it and approve
[22:59] <Kristy> yeah they should
[22:59] <Bugs42`> never and always are scary words
[23:00] * LadyMist{ chuckles over both
[23:00] <ravenshad> what do you do if it just "happens" during a session?
[23:00] <Tatsumi> yup Bugs
[23:00] * ravenshad tosses in another wrinkle...
[23:00] <ravenshad> true Bugs..so true..
[23:00] <Bugs42`> what do you mean "just happens"?
[23:00] <Tatsumi> i'm not sure somthing that limit pushing would just happen without any palnning
[23:01] <Tatsumi> :)
[23:01] <LadyMist{> But it can...
[23:01] <ravenshad> it can just happen..
[23:01] <LadyMist{> and does unfortunately..
[23:01] <Tatsumi> care to share how?
[23:01] <ravenshad> lets say..breath control for an example..
[23:01] <LadyMist{> for those who do not plan a scene
[23:01] <LadyMist{> who follow one the reactions of a sub (NOT ME)
[23:02] <ravenshad> you are in a session ..the dom decides to "try" it (real quick like, nothing major just a second or two holding the nose lets say) to guage the reaction..
[23:02] <ravenshad> then what?
[23:02] <LadyMist{> (we had this conversation at the beach)
[23:02] <LadyMist{> the men agreed (to a man) that it was more important for a scene to 'flow' rather than plan
[23:03] <LadyMist{> the plan I think keeps things in the Dom's contorl
[23:03] <LadyMist{> rather than edging happening
[23:03] <ravenshad> I ahve to agree that I prefer a scene to "flow" rather than be planned to the last detail..though, planning does occur in every scene to some extent..
[23:03] <Tatsumi> if we had talked about BP before <and you always should talk about such things> and he decided to just try it? i would be very upset
[23:03] <LadyMist{> I prefer to plan....not every detail...but most...
[23:03] <LrdBlkfel> BP?
[23:04] <Tatsumi> unless we had discussed working it into our life, it's not cool
[23:04] <ravenshad> breath play
[23:04] <Bugs42`> depends on how it was done, slowly, gently as a guage
[23:04] <LrdBlkfel> ok
[23:04] <Tatsumi> BP = breath play
[23:04] <AlstrBlck> to a point, it should be planned, but sketchy, not laid out completelt.
[23:04] <ravenshad> I can understand that Tats..
[23:04] <Tatsumi> i dont think a scene has to be planned, but i do think you should keep limits in mind while playing
[23:05] <Tatsumi> i dont care how well a scene is going, if i said i never want to do X and the dom agreed, it doens't happen. period.
[23:05] <Bugs42`> agreed, limits should be kept in mind
[23:05] <ravenshad> agreed Tats..
[23:06] <Tatsumi> OTOH, if we are going to do a scene that works on X, i know about it and can control my anger/panic.fellings of betrayal, etc...
[23:06] <Tatsumi> :)
[23:06] <ravenshad> Now, if the person had said, well I'm not sure I'd like it or not..maybe..would that change the whole idea of trying it a bit to guage the reaction of the sub?
[23:06] <ravenshad> good point Tats.. :)
[23:07] <Tatsumi> if it's a maybe, then a little pushing is ok, but not out of the blue
[23:07] <Tatsumi> the first time Soul and i did breath play it was pretty obvious that we were about to do it
[23:07] <ravenshad> I have to say that it depends on the people involved and the dynamics of the relationship Tats..
[23:07] <Tatsumi> we hadn't talked about it much. i told him about a bad experience i had had with it and that's all.
[23:08] <Tatsumi> it was a maybe for me.
[23:08] <Bugs42`> yes it does raven, but everything is so individualized
[23:08] <ravenshad> true Bugs..so very true..
[23:08] <Tatsumi> while we were in the midst of a great time <wink> he put his hand over my mouth
[23:08] <Tatsumi> and then ran his fingers over my face
[23:08] * ravenshad had no idea it was coming the first time it was done to her, but knew of the possibility...
[23:09] <Tatsumi> and kinda lingered for a sec or two on my nose and mouth
[23:09] <ravenshad> that's a gentle way to introduce breath play .. :)
[23:09] <Tatsumi> but he waited for me to push my face into his hand before he actually covered my nose and mouth
[23:09] <Tatsumi> :)
[23:10] <Tatsumi> i dont think i would have reacted as well if it wasn't inrtoduced that way
[23:10] <Bugs42`> so it wasn't really a surprise, but not discussed in advance
[23:10] <Tatsumi> i hope i'm not runing everone off with my stories:(
[23:10] <Tatsumi> right Bugs
[23:10] <ravenshad> not me Tats..:)
[23:10] <LadyMist{> NOOOOOOO...not me
[23:10] <ravenshad> Who are you asking taht of Bugs?
[23:10] <ravenshad> k dragn
[23:10] <Kristy> nope not me Tats
[23:10] <LadyMist{> I am being summoned....but he wants his last cigarette...so I have a minute..
[23:10] <Bugs42`> Tats
[23:25] <Tatsumi> as cheesy as it sounds, i think BDSM is a way to live well. it's doing saomething that inspires me and makes me appreicate life:)
[23:26] <Kristy> i agree Tats
[23:26] <Tatsumi> :)
[23:27] <ravenshad> I"m not sure if it makes me appreciate life more ...but it does make me look at more things than I used to..
[21:29] <ravenshad> OK..we will start the discussion then with that question Jackal..please wait one moment while I toss the rules up.. :)
[21:29] * ravenshad says Hello and welcome to leather and roses' weekly discussions on BDSM the following rules apply..
[21:29] <Tatsumi> egde play is anything the pushes a limit, fear or egde in your life/relationship
[21:29] <Jackal{s}> that you allow....or do not allow?
[21:30] <ravenshad> you must be of legal age to participate, if you are not, please leave. Legal age being 18 or 21 depending on your location
[21:30] <ravenshad> no trolling will be tolerated, this is not a singles night, it is a discussion night
[21:30] <ravenshad> be polite when speaking and do not flame anyone. You can disagree with an idea, but do not attack the person making the idea. Flamers, will be kicked
[21:30] <ravenshad> all statements are publishable on the web site, with nicks changed (at your request, email webmaster@leathernroses.com if you don't want your nick used.) If an email request is not recieved, that will be taken as consent to post the log in it's entirety using the nicknames.
[21:30] <ravenshad> To me..Edge play is any play that seriously flirts with death and/or severe injury...
[21:30] <wyspers^> that's been my understanding of it as well, raven..
[21:31] <Tatsumi> it can include <but doesn't have to> such things as water sports, blood play, death play, extreme bondage, etc...
[21:31] <ravenshad> Edge play may or may not be allowed in the relationship Jackal..it's a personal preference thing..
[21:31] <Jackal{s}> sounds very risky
[21:31] <Tatsumi> it can be Jackal
[21:32] <Tatsumi> that's why some people enjoy it
[21:32] <_mizu_> not if done right Sir, but it dose take trust
[21:32] <LadyMist{> I think that is what edge play is by definition...
[21:32] <LadyMist{> things that ARE risky...
[21:33] <ravenshad> edge play can include psychological edges as well..
[21:34] <LadyMist{> ahhhhh like severe humiliation?
[21:34] <ravenshad> edge play is risky..so why do some do it?
[21:34] <ravenshad> yes..severe humiliation can be very risky..specially for someone who has had emotional problems in the past..or possible past abuse
[21:34] <_mizu_> the thrill raven, get's the adriniln flowing
[21:35] <wyspers^> the greater the risk, the higher the adreneline rush, for one thing...
[21:35] <Jackal{s}> i have seen and heard of people who like to be choked while having intercourse but to me that to danger's
[21:35] <LadyMist{> ahhhh...now I can't get the rush unless I am comfortable...
[21:36] <LadyMist{> I had trouble with Milord wanting to place his hands on my neck....now am ok
[21:36] <Tatsumi> it is Jackal, but fun:)
[21:37] <ravenshad> That's breath control play Jackal..and I do enjoy it.. :)
[21:37] <AlstrBlck> I have played with electricity and one friend....
[21:37] <LadyMist{> it triggered bad emotions at first....before there was complete trust...
[21:38] <AlstrBlck> rather interesting, actually, trying to peel her off the ceiling, but also a tad dangerous.
[21:38] <LadyMist{> but I think edge play needs to be paired with complete trust...
[21:38] <Jackal{s}> why put oneself or any one in danger?
[21:38] <ravenshad> yes..I've had that happen...been chocked to unconsciousness when I was younger..so breath control was a big thing for me..
[21:38] <ravenshad> well Jackal, for me it is the fear (as a turn on) the ability to trust someone with my life..and my body likes it.. :)
[21:38] <LadyMist{> but Jackal anything and everything we do is dangerous...
[21:39] <Jackal{s}> this is true LadyMist
[21:39] <LadyMist{> my body likes being hurt....'smiling at raven'
[21:39] <ravenshad> yeah..seems mine does too.. :)
[21:40] <Jackal{s}> My partner enjoys biting on the neck and adams apple, but I must admit it scares me
[21:40] <LadyMist{> and that isnot completely safe either....but that is another conversation...
[21:40] <ravenshad> Why is edge play considered a part of BDSM that many do not like to talk about?
[21:40] <Tatsumi> Jackal, sometimes danger is an imprtant motivator or a way to get adreniline going
[21:40] <LadyMist{> Jackal there are many into biting....even blood play....that live....and get stimulated by it...
[21:41] <LadyMist{> I think that many do not like to talk about it....because so amny are not accpeting...
[21:41] <Jackal{s}> I had many adreniline rush in the military, but the one in the bedroom are much better and safer
[21:42] <AlstrBlck> for some, it's an adrenaline rush, pushing one's body to the limit and beyond. We're no different than the sky diver who waits to the absolute last second, and then waits one more, before pulling the cord.
[21:42] <ravenshad> Edge play isn't for everyone Jackal.. :) but to many, even a light flogging is edge play...
[21:42] <ravenshad> True LM..
[21:43] <LadyMist{> I think I am....
[21:43] <Jackal{s}> AlstrBlck I understand that but if you pull the cord to late who fault is it yours,
[21:43] * chens{LM} covers her nose again
[21:43] <ravenshad> How does one learn about edge play?
[21:44] <Soulhuntr> Just try it :)
[21:44] <Tatsumi> but be careful:)
[21:44] <AlstrBlck> Exactly, Jackal. And if you go to the edge with someone you don't have trust in, or who has inadequite abilities, the same thing happens.
[21:44] <LadyMist{> I think for most it is either a desire or a worked into situaiton...
[21:44] <Soulhuntr> Its true.... you have to think it out VERY carefully.
[21:44] <Soulhuntr> Learn all you can about what your doing.
[21:44] <Soulhuntr> Stay VERY alert.
[21:44] <Jackal{s}> I understand that it is something you and your partner must agree totally on
[21:44] <wyspers^> personally, I think edge play shouldn't just be tried without some research, thinking, and talking to those that have done it...
[21:45] <AlstrBlck> My friend and I were both very lucky when I played with electricity with her the first time.
[21:45] <ravenshad> In my experience, which is far from all knowing btw, it seems to me that people do indeed just try it...but shoudl the indeed research what it is they are about to do..so they can do it as safely as they possibly can?
[21:45] <ravenshad> well said Soul.. :)
[21:45] <ravenshad> AB, did you research electrical play at all? or was it just something you decided to pick up and go with. ??
[21:46] <Tatsumi> Daddy has a Cattle Prod that we just got and tried
[21:46] <Tatsumi> we just about hit the ceiling!
[21:46] <Tatsumi> lol
[21:46] <AlstrBlck> raven, you may have seen the few docs I have. One of those covered Electrical play, so I can say I have read something, but I will admit, I was very green for electrical play.
[21:46] <Soulhuntr> Well.. soemtimes you need to worry... sometimes not.
[21:47] <ravenshad> Ahhh..but Soul knows some info about that kind of play doesn't he?
[21:47] * ravenshad giggles and pictures herself hanging from the cieling by her fingernails...cattle prod?
[21:47] <Soulhuntr> That cattle prod for example.. it wasnt going to hurt us... so just trying it was fine.
[21:47] <KimiD> <-not fond of the cattle prod :)
[21:47] <Tatsumi> about cattle prods? what's there to know? you hit the button and zap someone:) hehehehe
[21:47] <Tatsumi> me either!!
[21:47] <Soulhuntr> <- is REALLY fond of it.
[21:47] <AlstrBlck> I seem to recall touching her clitoris with bare wires, and the next second, needing a spatula to scrape her off the ceiling... <EG>
[21:47] <Tatsumi> it wasn't going to HARM us. it hurt like HELL!
[21:47] <Tatsumi> lol
[21:48] <wyspers^> ouchie...
[21:48] <Tatsumi> Soul, don't fib. you hated it too
[21:48] <Tatsumi> lol AB
[21:48] <Soulhuntr> I didnt liek the feeling ;)
[21:48] * LadyMist{ think ouch...and that I am a baby about electrical play...
[21:48] <Soulhuntr> But then, I am gonna be on the handle side :) So I like it jsut fine.
[21:48] <Tatsumi> uh huh:)
[21:48] <KimiD> :smirk:
[21:48] * chens{LM} thinks ouch too
[21:48] * AlstrBlck considers turning on kimi's cam web page, to see her get zapped... <G>
[21:49] <Soulhuntr> It was better than that damn roller coaster. THAT was edge play. And non consensual at that.
[21:49] * ravnshad returns..darn ISP dumped me..
[21:49] <Jackal{s}> Hey I am a baby to it to I wouldn't it
[21:49] <KimiD> so what did i do to you Alstr?
[21:49] <Tatsumi> heheheh Daddy
[21:49] <Soulhuntr> <- damn near soiled hisself.
[21:50] <AlstrBlck> nothing, Kimi... But don't have Tat's web page memorized. <G>
[21:50] <Soulhuntr> <- screamed, clutched flagg and cried.
[21:50] <KimiD> it's the same cam :)
[21:51] <ravnshad> I do think, that often, people do just try things.
[21:52] <LadyMist{> coolness.
[21:52] <Jackal{s}> confussed
[21:52] <ravenshad> Do you think that edge play gives BDSM a bad name?
[21:52] <LadyMist{> I do 'cause very few understand....
[21:53] <KimiD> no i think people who aren't willing to let others feel comfortable with what they enjoy give BDSM a bad name
[21:53] <LadyMist{> that egde play is just a more intense form of stimulation..
[21:53] <Kristy> we have not tried electrical play yet...so i have no idea...Eric'll probably like it tho
[21:53] <Jackal{s}> I need to learn more on the subject
[21:53] <ncetnguy> I agree with KimiD
[21:53] * Kristy loves roller coasters :)
[21:53] * LadyMist{ hates them...LOL
[21:53] <Tatsumi> i agree Kimi
[21:54] * LadyMist{ agress with kimi too..
[21:54] <Jackal{s}> explain roller coaster
[21:54] <Tatsumi> <-- doesn't like electricty
[21:54] <Tatsumi> rollar coatser, a big ride at an amusement park
[21:54] <LadyMist{> is breath and blood and electricity the only edges though...?
[21:55] <Tatsumi> usually has high speed and makes your stomach get butterflies
[21:55] <Tatsumi> anything that pushes a limit fear, or edge is edge-play
[21:55] <LadyMist{> Jackal I think everyone is talking about the fear involved with rollar coaster vs. edge play...the same...
[21:55] <KimiD> guns,knives,hanging
[21:55] <KimiD> drowning
[21:55] <Jackal{s}> got you Tatsumi
[21:55] <LrdBlkfel> hmm
[21:55] <KimiD> needles
[21:56] <LadyMist{> YIkes,....needles.....I can handle the rest...
[21:56] * LadyMist{ jumps a foot...
[21:56] <Tatsumi> for instance, if you have a fear of heights, having sex on an airl=plane or a Ferris Wheel could be edge play
[21:56] <Jackal{s}> stay away from me with needles!!!!!!!
[21:56] <Tatsumi> :)
[21:56] <LrdBlkfel> ahh
[21:57] * wyspers^ has a strange image of herself handcuffed to a Ferris Wheel and forced to ride...
[21:57] <Jackal{s}> I understand better Tatsumi
[21:57] <wild{V_P}> lol wyspers... with your Master keeping you excited at the same time
[21:57] <Tatsumi> :) cool
[21:57] <KimiD> <--terrified of the FreeFall ride
[21:57] <Tatsumi> me too Kimi
[21:57] * wyspers^ grins at wild... oh yes...
[21:58] * chens{LM} loves all scary amusement park rides... *delighted grin*
[21:58] * wild{V_P} loves them too...
[21:58] <LadyMist{> OK so how does the mindfuck fall into edge play? is or not?
[21:58] <Kristy> :)
[21:58] <Jackal{s}> I could see make love on a greating 400 feet up in the air having to look down
[21:58] <wyspers^> the ferris wheel is scary...
[21:58] <Kristy> lol
[21:58] <wild{V_P}> we all have fears in the mind... just as fears of things
[21:59] <wyspers^> I don't think it is... unless it's so severe as to possibly cause psychological harm...
[21:59] <Kristy> absolutely love roller coasters....
[21:59] <Kristy> but not free fall rides
[21:59] <Kristy> those terrify me
[21:59] <Tatsumi> mindufcks are about tricking someone into thinking something is happening when it's not <to me>
[22:00] <LadyMist{> that is a mind fuck to me too...
[22:00] <LadyMist{> so what if a sub is ready for something and a Dom is not...
[22:00] <Tatsumi> so, if a sub is sensory deprived and feels a 'needle' when it's a toothpick, that's a mindfuck <to me>
[22:00] <LadyMist{> is the mindfuck as good?
[22:00] <Tatsumi> you wait lady
[22:01] <Tatsumi> or discuss getting a Mentor to help
[22:01] <Jackal{s}> why not just do vertual reality then to have them mind games where it still safe and messing with you rmind
[22:01] <LadyMist{> ??
[22:01] <Tatsumi> as good? it depends on your goals Lady
[22:01] <Kristy> :) Kimi
[22:01] <Tatsumi> if you're interesting in the fear behind the act and the acceptance and the f'flying' then the actual needle is not neccesasry
[22:01] <Kristy> screamed so loud my throat hurt all day the last time i went on one
[22:01] <LadyMist{> as a Dom if I don't feel confortable branding someone...who really wants it....
[22:02] <ravenshad> Jackal are you asking why not use virtual reality to get the mental thrill from edge play?
[22:02] <LrdBlkfel> has anyone branded or been branded?
[22:02] <Jackal{s}> yes raven
[22:02] <Tatsumi> Lady, i have a GREAT mind fuck for branding if you want i can email it to you:)
[22:02] <LadyMist{> but virtual reality is not the same..
[22:02] <ravenshad> Sorry AB...she didn't say anything that I saw ...
[22:02] <ravenshad> well because virtual reality..one: not everyone can afford it..
[22:03] <ravenshad> and two: is not the same as the physical thrill one gets from real human contact..
[22:03] <LadyMist{> I have thrown meat ont he barbie and used ice....for the mindfuck...
[22:03] <Soulhuntr> 2) Is hasnt been invented yet :)
[22:03] <ravenshad> lesat..that would be my thoughts..
[22:03] <ravenshad> that too Soul :)
[22:03] <Tatsumi> besides, the sdub doesn't know it's fake
[22:03] <LadyMist{> 2???
[22:03] <LadyMist{> what was one please?
[22:03] <Tatsumi> they actually think they are being peirced, or branded, or cut, or burned, whatever
[22:03] <Soulhuntr> 1) price
[22:03] <Jackal{s}> ok I agree there maybe I should just think more on this subject
[22:03] <LadyMist{> ahhhhhh....
[22:03] <LadyMist{> got it....(I hope)
[22:04] <Soulhuntr> At what point does a mind fuck start causing trust issues? if you are repeatedly 'tricked', then when do you stop believing?
[22:04] <LadyMist{> Like the scene where the sub thought she was being cut and there was warm water running dowm her body...
[22:04] <Tatsumi> a mindfuck is about trust and acceptance and fear without the physical consequence later
[22:05] <Tatsumi> Soul, if a sub has said no blood play, and the dom doesn the needle trick on her it may backfire
[22:05] <LadyMist{> I think the mind thing can only work once.....SHOULD only work once....should never be tried more than one...
[22:05] <Tatsumi> like anything / everything else, the dom is at riosk
[22:05] <Tatsumi> risk even
[22:06] <Tatsumi> Lady, it really depends on the person being tricked
[22:06] <ravenshad> A mind fuck if repeated, can erode trust....I think anyway....
[22:06] <LadyMist{> OK....I can understand that..
[22:06] <Tatsumi> not neccessarily
[22:07] * ravenshad thinks for a moment..(sorry all, with the time change, my kids are still up and I am having a hard time concentrating with a two year old hopping on my lap)
[22:07] <LadyMist{> but if I am not being trusted (as a dominant) and I try to make a sub understand that through the fantasy...(and only once)
[22:07] <LadyMist{> why do it again?
[22:07] <Tatsumi> if a sub says no blood, and a dom does the needle thing, and she trusts him, she will know intellectually she isn't being violated, but her mind and emotions will think she is being cut. she gets the fear and excitement without breaking the limit
[22:08] <Tatsumi> but it requires aa LOT of trust
[22:08] <Tatsumi> and can backfire really easy
[22:08] <Tatsumi> and horriblely
[22:08] <LadyMist{> sometimes more than they have.,....knowing it took me 6 years to get there...
[22:08] <ravenshad> I don't know Tats..if one had said no blood..to be "fooled" into believing they are being cut..it could backfire so easily..the anger and misturst such a "belief" raises..is not easily erased just by realizing you weren't really cut..know what I mean?
[22:09] <ravenshad> true Tats.. :)
[22:09] * ravenshad needs to learn to type faster again..
[22:09] <Tatsumi> i do raven, but when it works, it's so incredible
[22:09] <Tatsumi> i think it's more dangerous than any edge-play though
[22:09] <Tatsumi> and wouldn't recommend it
[22:09] <Tatsumi> :) raven
[22:09] <ravenshad> I have to agree with that Tats.. :)
[22:10] <Tatsumi> :)
[22:10] <LadyMist{> so the mental is more dangerous than the physical? (playing devil's advocate)
[22:10] <ravenshad> Something like that could cause an overwhelming anger and erode trust..and even destroy the relationship causing teh sub to think the dom violated their limits..or would do so..
[22:10] <Tatsumi> i think so Lady
[22:10] <Soulhuntr> Your right Tat - it would really depend on the trust level :)
[22:10] <ravenshad> I think so LM..mental scars last longer, and are more difficult to get rid of than a physical one..
[22:10] <Tatsumi> a body heals a lot faster than trust
[22:10] <Tatsumi> and accidental pysical mess-ups are easier to forgive too
[22:10] <Soulhuntr> Its about the seperation of mental trust from gut reaction.
[22:11] <Tatsumi> yep Soul
[22:11] <Soulhuntr> Liek a roller coaster... the body reacts as if life was threatened, but intellectually you know your safe.
[22:11] <ravenshad> I agree Tats..it is easier to forgive a misplaced strike than an emotional/mental scar..
[22:11] <LadyMist{> 'S' I agree...although I think if one had physical problems....that a physical mess up....is not easily forgiven either...
[22:11] * ravenshad doesn't believe roller coasters are safe..hates them with a passion..will never get on one...<grin>
[22:11] <Tatsumi> yes Soul
[22:12] * LadyMist{ hates them too...
[22:12] <Tatsumi> you just have to trust the ride that you're going to live through it:)
[22:12] <ravenshad> I think it depends on the person LM and whether or not they are willing to accept the consequences of their participation in BDSM activities..(like me)
[22:12] <LadyMist{> I don't....not ever!!
[22:12] <ravenshad> yeah..and I don't trust the rides either!! LOLOLOL
[22:12] <Tatsumi> lol
[22:12] <LadyMist{> was speaking of coasters..
[22:12] * ravenshad giggles..
[22:12] <Tatsumi> hehehe
[22:12] <ravenshad> sorry..I was just told "wub ooouuu Mama!"..<grin>
[22:12] <Tatsumi> <-- coffee brb
[22:13] <LadyMist{> I can accept the risks but....when Milord accidently strikes my back and puts me flat our for a couple of days....I have emotions ramifications...BIG ones..
[22:13] <ravenshad> I do too..but they are usually against myself..not my master..
[22:14] <LadyMist{> I have them against him due to the fact that I know how easy it is to not do it....the "switch- thing" I guess
[22:14] <LadyMist{> 'sigh'
[22:14] <ravenshad> When Bugs and I first started, he marked my back with a magic marker..made a "no strike" zone on it..used it to help him learn where it was ok and where it wasn't ok to hit my back..
[22:14] * LadyMist{ sometimes hates being a switch....
[22:15] <ravenshad> Yes..I can see how being a switch would do it..
[22:15] <LadyMist{> and other times....'smiling at chens
[22:15] <ravenshad> With my former partner, I would get emotional ramifications against him if he struck my back..
[22:15] <ravenshad> because I figured after 3 years together..he should have known better..and I knew he could avoid it if he really wanted to..
[22:15] <LadyMist{> we have been together for 6 years raven....it hasnt' changed...
[22:15] <AlstrBlck> raven, answer me this. He marked the area. Did he come close to the boundry line, or did he stay a couple inches from it?
[22:16] <ravenshad> he came close..and on one occasion, I moved,,and he hit the scar directly..
[22:16] <Kristy> I agree with Tats
[22:16] <AlstrBlck> And, since that time, has the boundry moved any?
[22:16] <ravenshad> was an accident..
[22:16] <ravenshad> yes..it has been removed..he knows how to hit there if he chooses to..though he prefers to remain at least one inch around the scar at all times..least until they refuse the area..
[22:16] <ravenshad> I see LM..that makes it more difficult..
[22:16] <AlstrBlck> so the no strike zone had a x-inch grey-zone boundry about it, then.
[22:16] <ravenshad> yes it did AB..
[22:17] <AlstrBlck> so, for you, and your back, would you say that you've gone to the edge of what you could tolerate, and have gone past it then?
[22:18] <ravenshad> I have surpassed everything I thought I could tolerate AB in the past few months..
[22:18] <ravenshad> I no longer know where my limits (physical play wise) are...
[22:18] <Tats-brb> :) raven
[22:18] <AlstrBlck> so BDSM has been like physical therapy for you, with your back.
[22:19] <ravenshad> no it hasn't AB..the physical play puts me off my feet for anywhere from 1 to 3 days after every session..
[22:19] <ravenshad> it increase the pain in my back every time I play..and could cripple me if I'm hit just the right way..
[22:19] <LadyMist{> but it does help you mentally....
[22:19] * ravenshad plays anyway..
[22:19] <ravenshad> yes it helps me mentally...and the sub space..leaves me pain free until my body cools down..
[22:19] <AlstrBlck> sorry, said that wrong. Thanx, LM. That's what I meant.
[22:19] <ravenshad> I ..need that small amount of pain free time..yanno?
[22:20] <ravenshad> to me, it's worth the risk..
[22:20] * LadyMist{ understands....
[22:20] <ravenshad> to others, I'm nuts.. LOLOL
[22:20] <AlstrBlck> to others, raven, we're ALL nuts.
[22:20] <LadyMist{> I thought you were nuts....(kidding) I do understnad.,..
[22:20] * wyspers^ laughs
[22:20] <ravenshad> true AB.. :)
[22:20] <ravenshad> so is that what it is then ...edge play is something some need in some way?
[22:20] <Tatsumi> yup AB
[22:20] <ravenshad> I know you do LM :)
[22:21] <Tatsumi> yup raven
[22:21] <AlstrBlck> it's the adrenaline rush, raven. We all get it in different ways.
[22:21] * ravenshad smiles..
[22:21] <ravenshad> ahhh..gotta love adrenaline.. :)
[22:21] <ravenshad> Is edge play sane? (ohhh..hot question)
[22:22] <Tatsumi> for some its about deeper trust, more sensation, or adrenilin
[22:22] <ravenshad> or all three Tats.. :)
[22:22] <Tatsumi> i couldn't say what sane is
[22:22] <LadyMist{> does aderelin have to do with all edge play? or is it just an incintive?
[22:22] <Soulhuntr> From my POV... ti isnt about adrenaline... it is mostly power, trust and reaction.
[22:22] <Tatsumi> yup raven:)
[22:22] <ravenshad> I think it's an incentive for some of it, and the reason for some of it..depending on each person..and the types of play they enjoy...
[22:23] <ravenshad> I can agree with that Soul..would it then be for the "helplessness" on the sub's part??
[22:23] <Soulhuntr> :)
[22:23] <Soulhuntr> Umm... yes, I think....and I like giving extreme sensations. Fear/pleasure/pain... whatever
[22:24] <ravenshad> I have to agree with you Soul..I know that for me, part of the attraction of edge play is the intensity of the feeling of helplessness..though it isn't just a feeling, it is a reality in many cases..
[22:24] <Tatsumi> i dont like the feeling, but i like what being helpless allows me to feel
[22:24] <Kimiko> i like showing the trust that edgeplay allows me to do.
[22:24] <Tatsumi> does that make any sense?
[22:24] <ravenshad> yes it does Tats..
[22:24] <Tatsumi> thanks raven:)
[22:25] <ravenshad> when done with a trusted partner, helplessness takes on a different "feeling" than truly being completely helpless does..
[22:25] <Tatsumi> yeah raven
[22:25] <ravenshad> it's consensual..which seems to make the difference for many types of play between even a minimum of enjoyment..and outright abhorance/terror
[22:25] <Tatsumi> but even with total trust, the feeling of helplessness just sucks for me
[22:25] <ravenshad> I do too Kimi..it is hard to explain the trust part though..
[22:26] <Tatsumi> but i allow it <and like ti> because being helpless allows me to play on edges i wouldn't be able to do otherwise
[22:26] <ravenshad> I can understand that Tats..
[22:26] <Tatsumi> thanks raven:)
[22:26] <Kristy> thats interesting Tats about the helplessnes...for the most part i like that helpless feeling but everyonce in awhile it just really makes me upset
[22:26] <Tatsumi> i dont need anyone to agree, just undserstand the words:) lol
[22:27] <AlstrBlck> If someone were to break into your house, and tie you naked to the bed, gag you, and have their way with you, it's terror-filled. But, if the same is done (the tying naked to the bed, gagging, having their way) is done by someone you trust in the situation, the emotional ride is entirely different.
[22:27] <Tatsumi> i think that's baggage Kristy
[22:27] <Tatsumi> sometimes i just get hit with past baggage in the middle of a 'scene'
[22:27] <Tatsumi> it really sux
[22:27] <ravenshad> Does edge play increase the possibility of emotional damage for those who do have a history of abuse or something?
[22:27] * LadyMist{ couldn't evercome rape until someone I trusted re-enacted the ame sernio...'S"
[22:27] <ravenshad> Yes it does suck Tats..and I know that too well..
[22:27] <Kristy> :nods: exactly Tats
[22:27] <ravenshad> it's horrible to panic in a scene..
[22:28] <ravenshad> So LM would you say that some edge play can be used to help a person get over some passed emotional baggage?
[22:28] <ravenshad> past even..
[22:29] <Tatsumi> i think it depends on the person and the abuse
[22:29] * ravenshad nods..I can agree with that..
[22:29] <LadyMist{> Yes....and I think it is easier to get over something by saying that 'x;' happened bfore ....YUCKY...and now"x" os happening again...and I am OK....even stronger...
[22:29] <Tatsumi> but just about any good relationship can be used to help one become whole again after abuse
[22:29] <ravenshad> Would you say that edge play is something one should work their way up to?
[22:29] <ravenshad> true Tats.. :)
[22:30] <LadyMist{> Yes....I think so...
[22:30] <Kristy> i think so raven
[22:30] <Tatsumi> i think it depends on your needs
[22:30] <ravenshad> I know how that feels LM..it can work that way.. :)
[22:30] <Tatsumi> <doiesn't it all seem to depend ? lol>
[22:30] <LadyMist{> true too...if the desire is there...
[22:30] <Kristy> you need time for the trust to build..
[22:30] <ravenshad> ok..lets say you know you like/need/want knife play..but you have a new partner who isn't so sure of it..would you prefer to work up to it..or jump right in?
[22:30] <Tatsumi> some never need or want to play an edge
[22:30] <Tatsumi> that doesn't mean they're not kinky or into BDSM
[22:30] <ravenshad> I agree that trust must be built before edge play comes into the relationship...
[22:31] <Tatsumi> it just means thier needs are different:)
[22:31] <Tatsumi> if the patner isn't secure in an edge-play activity dont do it
[22:31] <LadyMist{> Now as a dom if I can't or don't feel comfortable...I would rather do the playact at knife play..
[22:31] <LadyMist{> than actually cut a person..
[22:32] * chens{LM} wouldnt like to be cut
[22:32] <Tatsumi> there is nothing wrong IMO to have a Mantor or close friedn preform the act of cutting/branding.peircing/etc..
[22:32] * ravenshad never thought she would like to be cut..but isn't sure of that anymore..
[22:32] <Tatsumi> i loove to be cut:)
[22:32] <Kristy> don't know if i'd like cutting...
[22:32] <LrdBlkfel> hmm
[22:32] <Tatsumi> it's a very unique and exicting feeling:)
[22:33] <Tatsumi> wow my typos are horrid! lol
[22:33] * ravenshad giggles..no worse than mine sometimes Tats.. :)
[22:33] <Kristy> seems like it Tats...i've read a few scene reports on it
[22:33] <Bugs42`> never thought much about cutting, what is it you find exciting
[22:33] <LrdBlkfel> Tasumi, have you said where you been cut already?
[22:33] <ravenshad> OK..so where does one learn how to do edge play activities?
[22:34] <AlstrBlck> movies, friends, word of mouth, magazines...
[22:34] <Kristy> lots of BDSM groups host seminars on them
[22:34] <Tatsumi> by practice, and watching, and being taught
[22:34] <LadyMist{> hopefully by those who have done it before...repeatedly...
[22:34] <Tatsumi> depends on the activbity
[22:34] <ravenshad> and if there are no local BDSM groups?
[22:34] <Tatsumi> LB, i have cut myslef on my arms, thighs, breats, and stomach
[22:34] * ravenshad thinks of the many who live in BFE...
[22:34] <Kristy> then by practice and watching as Tats said
[22:34] <LrdBlkfel> hmm
[22:35] <Tatsumi> Soul has cut my ass, thighs, breats, stomach and back
[22:35] <AlstrBlck> or worse, raven, one of the notches in the bible belt... :(
[22:35] <LrdBlkfel> kinda kinky in a way
[22:35] <Tatsumi> i have also cut Kimiko
[22:35] <Tatsumi> that was fun:)
[22:35] <ravenshad> What things should a person research before trying edge play?
[22:35] <LrdBlkfel> not sure if i could do that tho
[22:35] <AlstrBlck> the dangers and risks involved, raven.
[22:35] * ravenshad thinks there is one thing missing from "practice and watching"..
[22:35] * LadyMist{ lives int he bible belt and has been taught...<--- is very LUCKY
[22:35] <ravenshad> true AB..not what I was thinking of, but that's true
[22:35] <ravenshad> how about..basic anatomy?
[22:35] <LadyMist{> PRACTICE...LOl
[22:35] <Tatsumi> if you're going to cut someone, do it to yourself first
[22:35] <Kristy> :)
[22:35] <ravenshad> location of arteries, major nerves, and muscle groups??
[22:36] <AlstrBlck> Tat, I have.....
[22:36] <LadyMist{> atanomy...
[22:36] <Tatsumi> you have NO IDEA how much pressure to use unless you can feel it
[22:36] <Tatsumi> :)
[22:36] <LadyMist{> sran wrap over jellop
[22:36] <Soulhuntr> you dont really every go that deep raven.
[22:36] <LadyMist{> jello even
[22:36] <ravenshad> practice the use of knives/scalpals etc on things like peaches, plums etc..get a feel for how deep you can opr want to go..
[22:36] <Tatsumi> good plan ravn, but i dont ever plan to go that deep
[22:36] <ravenshad> true Soul..but the idea is to know where theese things are..one: in case of an accident and two..to prevent going too deep in that area..
[22:36] <Soulhuntr> Well.. nothing, NOTHING is like human skin that I know for practicing cutting.
[22:36] <Tatsumi> yes LM
[22:37] <Tatsumi> i agree Soul
[22:37] <ravenshad> true Soul..but one can get a better handle on using a knife and I'd rather slice a plum too deeply than my own thigh.. :)
[22:37] <Tatsumi> and practicing is essntail if you want a pretty design:)
[22:37] * LadyMist{ has taken basis atamony and dome a cadaver....nothing like the living though
[22:37] <Kimiko> <-waiting for her next cutting :)
[22:37] <ravenshad> there are more than just knives used in edge play..a basic idea of anatomy is a good thing to know for activities outside of edge play as well..
[22:37] <Tatsumi> lol - you have to use a LOT of pressure with a scalpel
[22:37] <Soulhuntr> All I can say is, I have cut lots of things, paper, vegetables, fruit, leather and so on... nothing is like skin.
[22:37] * LadyMist{ is typo queen yet again...LOL
[22:38] <Tatsumi> you wont be able to slice yourself opne that badly as long as your careful:)
[22:38] <Tatsumi> true raven:)
[22:38] <ravenshad> Does edgplay enhance the power exchange in the relationship in your opinion?
[22:39] <LadyMist{> ahhhhh...it does...if your other half would like the activities
[22:39] <ravenshad> Would you say that edge play hold a more mental/emotional appeal for you, or a more physical one?
[22:40] <LadyMist{> Depends on if you wnat me as a Dom or a sub...LOL
[22:41] <Kristy> I think it's both raven...we haven't done any real edge play yet..but some things I crave the physical sensation of and the rest is just the mental and emotional between Eric and I
[22:42] <ravenshad> I can understand that Kristy.. :)
[22:42] <Kristy> :)
[22:42] <ravenshad> I would have to say that for me it is both..though I have very little edge play experience
[22:43] <LadyMist{> but isn't everyone edges different? or are they the same?
[22:43] <KimiD> ;
[22:43] <Tatsumi> everyone has different edges
[22:43] <ravenshad> yes they are different LM..I think so anyway..
[22:43] <Kristy> i think so too
[22:44] <Tatsumi> becuse everyone has diff fears and limit
[22:44] <Tatsumi> s
[22:44] <Tatsumi> talking about a rape scene or death play wont get you kicked will it?
[22:44] <ravenshad> What are the hardest edges to "play" with? physical or mental/emotional oens?
[22:44] <ravenshad> no Tats..not at all..
[22:44] <Tatsumi> thanks:)
[22:45] <LadyMist{> rape was the hardest until I dealt with it...
[22:46] <ravenshad> I can udnerstand that LM..
[22:46] <Tatsumi> raven, i couldn't say which are harder, it depends on the personal limits/fears/edges
[22:46] <ravenshad> a rape fantasy is something I've thought about..but I am not sure if I could ever go through one without panicking..
[22:46] <LadyMist{> I had to get through one without panicking......
[22:46] <Kristy> and I think it would depend on the situation...some edge things would be more nerve wracking physically, but wouldn't bother me at all mental/emotion wise
[22:47] <ravenshad> I think it might be the emotional/psychological ones that are mor difficult..people tend to hold faster to those "limits" than they do the physical ones..
[22:47] <ravenshad> good point Kristy..
[22:47] <LadyMist{> I was raped twice,.,.,and it was affecting my ability to serve...
[22:47] <ravenshad> so..would edge play be something that requires a lot of discussion before it takes place?
[22:47] <LrdBlkfel> seems so
[22:47] <LadyMist{> depends on the trust level...
[22:48] <ravenshad> I am sorry to hear that you had to live through that twice LM..and I am glad to hear you have gotten past the baggage it leaves behind..
[22:48] <LadyMist{> Milord could do anything (literally) and I would be ok...
[22:48] * LadyMist{ smiles
[22:48] <ravenshad> yes..that is a major factor..
[22:48] <AlstrBlck> That is a DANGEROUS word, LadyMist....
[22:48] <LadyMist{> I am ok now,...
[22:48] <LadyMist{> why dangerous?
[22:49] <ravenshad> Do you think some people see edge play as something they have to do in order to be considered "real" bdsmers?
[22:49] <AlstrBlck> The word ANYTHING is a dangerous word. I know a Domme who will NEVER say that word around me again.
[22:49] <LadyMist{> I have said before (on the group) that I can and would fall into the great beyond in his arms and I would be ok..
[22:50] <LadyMist{> is there anything in the middle? 'curious'
[22:50] <LrdBlkfel> that is alot of trust Miss.. how long have you been..together
[22:50] <LadyMist{> I have been collared for 6 years now...
[22:50] <ravenshad> Cngrats LM.. :)
[22:50] <LadyMist{> thank you..'S"
[22:50] <ravenshad> you're welcome :)
[22:50] <LadyMist{> it hasn't been esy for either of us...LOL
[22:51] <ravenshad> I do have to agree with AB though..never use the word "anything" with someone you do not know well enough to know they wouldn't ask something of you that you definately could not give..
[22:51] <LadyMist{> oh...totally agreed...
[22:51] <LadyMist{> couldn't agree more...
[22:51] <ravenshad> goes back to negotiation and being sure your partner is someone who's needs/desires/fantasies match yours pretty darned well..
[22:51] <LrdBlkfel> Miss, hehe.. nothing seems to be easy in this lifetime.. but at least your still together.. I wish it is the same for me and my rose
[22:51] <Kristy> good point raven
[22:51] <LadyMist{> 'S"
[22:52] <AlstrBlck> Thanx, raven. As I've said, I know a Domme, into hardcore s&m, and she SHIVERS when anyone says that word, because she remembers me.. <VEG>
[22:52] <LadyMist{> we wouldn''t be anything but together....
[22:52] <ravenshad> LOL AB..leave it to you!! LOLOLOL
[22:52] * LadyMist{ wants to meet AB...(not a challenge....a Wish...a real one...)
[22:53] * LadyMist{ is loaned out frequently.....
[22:53] <ravenshad> Do you see edge play as a seperate part of BDSM? or just part of the whole...>
[22:53] <ravenshad> ?
[22:53] <Kristy> I think it's part of the whole, raven...
[22:53] <LrdBlkfel> loaned out
[22:53] <Bugs42`> I agree, part of the whole
[22:53] <Kristy> to be taken or left as each couple decides
[22:54] * ravenshad thinks the same..
[22:54] <LadyMist{> I wouldn't even say as a couple decides......as one decides and the other is comfortable with..
[22:55] <Kristy> that sounds better
[22:55] <LrdBlkfel> hmm
[22:55] <ravenshad> I think that on something like edge play, it should be a mutual decision...
[22:55] <ravenshad> simply because of the increased ability of permanent physical harm..
[22:55] <ravenshad> the one who could be hurt, should be
[22:55] <ravenshad> 1: agreeable to it
[22:55] <ravenshad> 2: willing to accept the increased chance of permanent injury..
[22:56] <Bugs42`> you think it should be discussed?
[22:56] <Tatsumi> what Bugs?
[22:57] <Bugs42`> raven said she thought edge play should be a mutual decision
[22:57] <Tatsumi> i agree
[22:57] <ravenshad> I think it should be ys..but, life doesn't always work that way...
[22:57] <ravenshad> yes even
[22:57] <ravenshad> edge play Tats..
[22:57] <ravenshad> someone said it should be as one decides and the other feels comfortable with..I said that I feel it should be mutual agreement to inlclude or exclude edge play from the relationship..
[22:57] <ravenshad> to put it in better words.. :)
[22:58] <Tatsumi> oh
[22:58] <Tatsumi> ok... i dont think you can decide that you will never do anything edgy
[22:58] <Tatsumi> b/c people change too much to say never'
[22:58] <ravenshad> I agree with that Tats..:)
[22:59] <ravenshad> I meant that it should be a mutual decision to include it (whatever particular type of play it might be)
[22:59] <Kristy> yes they do...a year ago Eric and i both had things we'd "never" do..that we are discussing doing not
[22:59] <Kristy> now that is
[22:59] <Tatsumi> but when you are doing something edgy, both people should know about it and approve
[22:59] <Kristy> yeah they should
[22:59] <Bugs42`> never and always are scary words
[23:00] * LadyMist{ chuckles over both
[23:00] <ravenshad> what do you do if it just "happens" during a session?
[23:00] <Tatsumi> yup Bugs
[23:00] * ravenshad tosses in another wrinkle...
[23:00] <ravenshad> true Bugs..so true..
[23:00] <Bugs42`> what do you mean "just happens"?
[23:00] <Tatsumi> i'm not sure somthing that limit pushing would just happen without any palnning
[23:01] <Tatsumi> :)
[23:01] <LadyMist{> But it can...
[23:01] <ravenshad> it can just happen..
[23:01] <LadyMist{> and does unfortunately..
[23:01] <Tatsumi> care to share how?
[23:01] <ravenshad> lets say..breath control for an example..
[23:01] <LadyMist{> for those who do not plan a scene
[23:01] <LadyMist{> who follow one the reactions of a sub (NOT ME)
[23:02] <ravenshad> you are in a session ..the dom decides to "try" it (real quick like, nothing major just a second or two holding the nose lets say) to guage the reaction..
[23:02] <ravenshad> then what?
[23:02] <LadyMist{> (we had this conversation at the beach)
[23:02] <LadyMist{> the men agreed (to a man) that it was more important for a scene to 'flow' rather than plan
[23:03] <LadyMist{> the plan I think keeps things in the Dom's contorl
[23:03] <LadyMist{> rather than edging happening
[23:03] <ravenshad> I ahve to agree that I prefer a scene to "flow" rather than be planned to the last detail..though, planning does occur in every scene to some extent..
[23:03] <Tatsumi> if we had talked about BP before <and you always should talk about such things> and he decided to just try it? i would be very upset
[23:03] <LadyMist{> I prefer to plan....not every detail...but most...
[23:03] <LrdBlkfel> BP?
[23:04] <Tatsumi> unless we had discussed working it into our life, it's not cool
[23:04] <ravenshad> breath play
[23:04] <Bugs42`> depends on how it was done, slowly, gently as a guage
[23:04] <LrdBlkfel> ok
[23:04] <Tatsumi> BP = breath play
[23:04] <AlstrBlck> to a point, it should be planned, but sketchy, not laid out completelt.
[23:04] <ravenshad> I can understand that Tats..
[23:04] <Tatsumi> i dont think a scene has to be planned, but i do think you should keep limits in mind while playing
[23:05] <Tatsumi> i dont care how well a scene is going, if i said i never want to do X and the dom agreed, it doens't happen. period.
[23:05] <Bugs42`> agreed, limits should be kept in mind
[23:05] <ravenshad> agreed Tats..
[23:06] <Tatsumi> OTOH, if we are going to do a scene that works on X, i know about it and can control my anger/panic.fellings of betrayal, etc...
[23:06] <Tatsumi> :)
[23:06] <ravenshad> Now, if the person had said, well I'm not sure I'd like it or not..maybe..would that change the whole idea of trying it a bit to guage the reaction of the sub?
[23:06] <ravenshad> good point Tats.. :)
[23:07] <Tatsumi> if it's a maybe, then a little pushing is ok, but not out of the blue
[23:07] <Tatsumi> the first time Soul and i did breath play it was pretty obvious that we were about to do it
[23:07] <ravenshad> I have to say that it depends on the people involved and the dynamics of the relationship Tats..
[23:07] <Tatsumi> we hadn't talked about it much. i told him about a bad experience i had had with it and that's all.
[23:08] <Tatsumi> it was a maybe for me.
[23:08] <Bugs42`> yes it does raven, but everything is so individualized
[23:08] <ravenshad> true Bugs..so very true..
[23:08] <Tatsumi> while we were in the midst of a great time <wink> he put his hand over my mouth
[23:08] <Tatsumi> and then ran his fingers over my face
[23:08] * ravenshad had no idea it was coming the first time it was done to her, but knew of the possibility...
[23:09] <Tatsumi> and kinda lingered for a sec or two on my nose and mouth
[23:09] <ravenshad> that's a gentle way to introduce breath play .. :)
[23:09] <Tatsumi> but he waited for me to push my face into his hand before he actually covered my nose and mouth
[23:09] <Tatsumi> :)
[23:10] <Tatsumi> i dont think i would have reacted as well if it wasn't inrtoduced that way
[23:10] <Bugs42`> so it wasn't really a surprise, but not discussed in advance
[23:10] <Tatsumi> i hope i'm not runing everone off with my stories:(
[23:10] <Tatsumi> right Bugs
[23:10] <ravenshad> not me Tats..:)
[23:10] <LadyMist{> NOOOOOOO...not me
[23:10] <ravenshad> Who are you asking taht of Bugs?
[23:10] <ravenshad> k dragn
[23:10] <Kristy> nope not me Tats
[23:10] <LadyMist{> I am being summoned....but he wants his last cigarette...so I have a minute..
[23:10] <Bugs42`> Tats
[23:25] <Tatsumi> as cheesy as it sounds, i think BDSM is a way to live well. it's doing saomething that inspires me and makes me appreicate life:)
[23:26] <Kristy> i agree Tats
[23:26] <Tatsumi> :)
[23:27] <ravenshad> I"m not sure if it makes me appreciate life more ...but it does make me look at more things than I used to..
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